As Promised, 30-30 Load Data

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by justgoto, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    I had just read a thread 3 days ago where someone linked to Ladder load testing, which had made this very inexpensive; 20 shots and I had my charge, 9 more just to make sure.

    The first thing I wanted was a bullet that would go at least 700 yards with enough velocity to have some expansion... even though I am from the shot placement crowd.
    I chose the 168gr A-Max for the .475 BC, and also because they expand easily.

    I chose the powder that my Hornady book suggested as the best for this weight bullet, VIHT N-135. I started at 27.2 because I wanted to end my max load at 31.0 grains,
    climbing .2 of a grain for each cartridge.

    All other components were selected by availability.
    My 100 yard target:

    [​IMG]

    I came to the conclusion that I should have cleaned my barrel every so often. I also concluded that 27.8 was the optimum charge.

    [​IMG]

    2 days later I had 9 cartridges with a charge of 27.8, which I took out to my 300 yard station for testing. There were 7-4mph winds from 3 o'clock at the top of the hill, the middle had about the same speed but from 12 o'clock; the bottom of the hill was calm. The humidity was unusually low. I tried shooting when the wind subsided but we all know how that works.

    After the 4th shot I figured it was zeroed enough to go for my groups; I ran a wet patch through my barrel, then a dry one taking 3 shots letting my barrel cool for 15 minutes between. About the time it takes me to walk to the target, mark it, walk back and send a wet and dry patch down the bore. It was around 80 degrees when I started.
    The only problem was, the wind was dying down during those shots. You can tell from my target.

    [​IMG]
    Shots 5, 6 and 7; from left to right respectively.

    By the time I was back from marking the last shot of my group, the wind was nonexistent and it was about 85 degrees with the sun beating down on my barrel,it was hot to the touch and wasn't cooling down with any amount of patches. (I need to make a roof over my table.)
    So, I thoroughly cleaned the bore and took my last two shots, doing the ritual cooling procedure. I really wish I had brought another bullet!

    [​IMG]

    So there we have it.

    Winchester Model 94 30-30
    Load Testing
    300 Yards; 1.75", .58 MOA
    VIHT N-135; 27.8 grains
    Hornady 168gr A-Max
    COL: 2.765 - 2 49/64; (touching lands)
    Primer: CCI 200 LR
    Case: Remington - shot twice
    9/13/09

    I'm still getting used to using a scope, so I'll be back with an update of any new developments.

    [​IMG]

    I guess I should mention:
    The rifle is a 30 year old Winchester Model 94 Ranger, (the cheap one,) just as I bought it.
    I am using a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40.
     
  2. RT2506

    RT2506 Well-Known Member

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    That is some very good groups for a leaver gun. But your velocity is way too slow to expect much if any expansion from even an A-max at much over 100 yards. Your load according to my Hornady loading manual should only have a MV of 2000 fps. According to the Hornady manual the .308 168 A-Max is supposed to operate between 2300 and 3400 fps muzzle velocity. Do the game you will be hunting a great honor and please get with in 150 yards before you shoot them with your 30-30 Win or get more gun. I have shot a few deer with the 30-30 in my time and you need bullet performance for a quick kill. A deer size animal can go a long way with just a small hole punched through their lungs by a non expanding 30 cal bullet. I have shot a few deer with cast bullets in a 45-70 and I can tell you that deer can go quite a long ways after taking a non expanding cast slug through the lungs. The hole in the hide tends to seal it self up and they bleed on the inside and you don't have a blood trail to track either. Chance of loosing the game is really high.
     

  3. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    Yeah... Not this again.

    I swear, this site is just as bad as the others with one set of people looking down their nose at the other set.

    Good thing I said, "some expansion", kinda like saying, "much if any expansion" huh?
    Also a good thing I am not wanting to "litterally pick[] the deer up off the ground and spn it 360* like a top"! Huh?

    You had better get back to that thread and stand-up to those guys!
    And you should also tell every one of those long range solid copper bullet people that they are unethical too! That is what you are getting at, right?

    And yes, the A-Max comes apart at 300 yards let alone 100. Why make things-up? Oh, yeah, I forgot to whom I was talking to. Never mind...

    "COL: 2.765 - 2 49/64; (touching lands)" which equates to at the least, 2080.
    From the Hornady handbook, pages 25 and 26; '...3500fps--is "normal'' for this load in this rifle... When the bullet is seated to touching the rifling... velosity is high at 3650...'
    Math is hard!

    This condescending comment is what pissed me off. Like I said, "I am from the shot placement crowd."

    I will not be hunting deer with a 30-30, especially in Ohio. I never said I was going to and your assumptions have no place in this discussion. I do plan on shooting ground hogs and maybe a coyote or 3. Will you let me?

    Besides, I have seen deer shot with a 30-30 at 400 yards, they dropped like a hot potato.

    I will be hunting deer with my 357, which will be hitting well under the 1200fps with a bullet that expands less than the a-max. Others on this site thought that ethical, I wonder why this wouldn't be? Would you like a link to that thread so you can go there and bitch at me and those other unethical promoters?

    Wow, I would have thought it would have "lifted off the ground and shoved forward about 3 feet being pile driven into the ground" I guess not?

    I know you are a great hunter, with over 200 confirmed kills, but I would think you could track a deer, shot or not, by now.

    In case you don't get it by now... I don't believe a word you say, not one. With comments like the ones I have pointed out from you, why would I?
    I don't care for your inability to read, your condescending attitude and your flawed assumptions.
    Anything you say to me will be disregarded outright as bullshit from now on. I'll just link to your fantasy comments on bullets pile driving deer into the ground! I think that's fair.

    If this offends anyone other than the dude above, sorry but I get this kind of thing almost every time I post here, and it gets tiring.
    Just because most here can afford and are able to buy things I cannot, does not mean I haven't read this site, books and (what have you,) extensively; and have tested my theories to the best of my ability with as much vigor.

    Many here are bigoted when it comes to the 30-30, (and maybe poor people in general,) I GET IT! gun)
     
  4. RT2506

    RT2506 Well-Known Member

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    I should have know that this thread was a trap from a troll looking for a fight. I am sorry that you can not handle the truth. It should tell you that YOU have a problem when, and I quote "I get this kind of thing almost every time I post here". This site has a great deal of very knowledgeable people when it comes to firearms and hunting and I count myself in with them. If just because the findings from experience of others does not fit your fancy you do not need to get so up tight. So go chill out. End of story.
     
  5. steve smith

    steve smith Well-Known Member

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    Not getting involved here.

    RT2506, I don't remember reading in Justgotos post, him asking for anyones opinion.

    I've been a member of this forum since it started, and I've been seeing an increase of post such as yours. Now I'm not saying that your post was out of line, but you must remember that there are always people with more experience and knowledge than you. Now before you start quoting Hornady on what will or won't work, you might try asking some questions. There are quite a few members here that have been using A-max bullets at impact velocities far lower than what Hornady recomends, and quite successfully at that. So before you go get on your high horse and tell someone what they're doing won't be doing the game "honor", maybe you should keep your mouth shut and open your ears a little more often.
     
  6. old_heli_logger

    old_heli_logger Well-Known Member

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    Wow.

    Thumper says, "If you don't have nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all."

    I'll shut-up now.
     
  7. cstilt

    cstilt Well-Known Member

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    Having never shot a 30-30 at anything over 150yards, I can make no comment on long range. I do have a few questions though.

    How well do your rounds work in the tubular magazine? I'd always heard pointed bullets were a no no or do you single load? Sorry if you mentioned that and I didn't notice it.

    Thats all the questions I have. My only other request is to load up some more bullets and let me see some more long range groups. That seems to be a damn fine shooting gun you have there. Can't wait to hear what I'll do on those coyotes too.

    Chris
     
  8. ffwd

    ffwd Active Member

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    I read an article about this years ago. The author built a mock magazine with same dia. round tubing. He cut a slot the length of it (to see inside) and put some spire point loaded 30-30 rounds in it. Due to the rim, all the cartridges were angled, and he had to actually shim them all to get the points to line up with the primers.
     
  9. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking of adding this to the post at first;

    (WARNING: I should also mention; these bullets should be loaded individually directly into the chamber, otherwise you run the risk of discharging the cartridges in the tube mag. They are too long to chamber properly from the mag anyway.)

    I wrote that in other posts I made elsewhere but I figured most people knew. Weird thing is that I decided to add that to my post not more than 12 hours ago.
     
  10. panman

    panman Member

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    Ya never said you were goin to shoot deer,lol,paper is what i see.Thats a remarkable group,groups you have shot.I guess that it just gos to show that the bolt guns are not the king of small groups,lol.Most of us would be proud of half as good.Great shootin!!.
    Any anilml shot through BOTH lungs has not long to live peried,they just cant breeth!!.
    A LOT of animal rite activists pose as shooters and hunters and start stuff to upset other members:rolleyes:.Weed them out,and egnore em:rolleyes:.Keep up the good work justgoto,i for one will look forward to any and all topics you reply to or start.pan.:cool:
     
  11. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    I was shooting one day and dropped one of those cartridges and the bullet drove itself deep in the case. I figured that could happen at the inopportune time so I decided to use Hornady flex-tip bullets instead. They have a cannelure and I now can load the tubular magazine safely.

    I did the ladder testing as before, figured my scope settings for 100 and 200 yards, then went for a 300 yard group.

    YouTube - 30-30 Group at 300 Yards

    Sorry for the bad video quality. :/

    Winchester 94 30-30, Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40,
    1 15/16; 300 yards; .64moa

    Bullet: Hornady 160gr FTX
    Powder: VIHT N-135 29.2gr
    Primer: CCI 200
    Case: Rem - shot 15
    COL: 2.531" (to the cannelure)

    I was using my lee dies and the bullet seating die would not get the bullet down far enough, so I put an old primer in it between the floating piece and the adjustment knob and now it seats them nicely! ;)
     
  12. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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  13. Freebore

    Freebore Well-Known Member

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    justgoto,

    One fine shootin' lever actioned rifle you have there! I have one of them in one of my safes somewhere. I have a set of them Lee dies too! Don't have any VV powder though in that number.
    I'm truly impressed with your minimal testing using proven (ladder test) means and results I would not think possible. Just goes to show you what a little forethought can do. Being retired I think I'll have a new project.
    Question about bore diameter though, .307 I thought is the 30-30. Obviously .308 bullets are OK to shoot.

    Congradulations on your results an thanks for sharing this unusual combo.
     
  14. justgoto

    justgoto Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I shoot .308 bullets through it. The FTX bullets are .308 and they are made specifically for lever action 30-30s.

    Thanks for your compliments, they are very much appreciated! :)