MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I don't follow it either.... If a heard bull is poached another bull takes his place... if a wolf pack is turned loose on them, the whole herd is gone...
Are wolves really the problem
- Thread starter longrangehuntr
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I don't follow it either.... If a heard bull is poached another bull takes his place... if a wolf pack is turned loose on them, the whole herd is gone...
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
Right on the money!!!!!
We've had poachers, Indians, hunters and ranchers for generations and enjoyed excellent elk herds, within a few years of the wolf introduction the Yellowstone herd declined to a point they don't even count it anymore.
Several of the biggest ranches in my area have Biologist on staff to help manage the ranches for healthy elk and cattle both. Without the water ranchers have developed in the range lands there would not be near as many elk as there are now either!!
cohunter14
Well-Known Member
Exactly...that is where I was a little lost.
longrangehuntr
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Alrighty then, yall are right the wolves are the only thing that are causing the decline in the elk population and i will be sure to shoot as many as i can. If i shoot the female wolves it will decline the population that much faster. the only good wolf is a dead wolf.
I wanted to go wolf hunting way before i asked this question in this forum and enjoy hunting and will continue to do so.
I wanted to go wolf hunting way before i asked this question in this forum and enjoy hunting and will continue to do so.
oldmossy
Well-Known Member
I agree. Only good wolf is a dead wolf!!
longrangehuntr
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coyotes, bears and mnt lions as well. I plan on hunting bear in the spring and yotes and mnt lions in the fall.
oldmossy
Well-Known Member
Wolves, bears and lions should always be in season, just like the coyotes. In my opinion.
longrangehuntr
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they need to have time to bread so that i have something to shoot at in the spring to make sure im ready for the fall.
bigngreen
Well-Known Member
How else can a guy take the facts other than the wolf has had the largest impact, the grizz ain't far behind in our area but I think we just got approved in our area for the next steps for a season, which I'm stoked about!
If everything is stable, poachers, Indians, hunters and ranchers take the same year after year and the elk population is stable and in a few years following the introduction of an apex predator we are looking at some areas wiped out, how can you come up with any other conclusion?
In my area the elk are in good shape, it's ranch country so wolves are shot on sight and it's open enough they can't get away as easy and the elk have some running room. I kill two elk a year, between me and some friends take 20+ elk a year and the ranch has way more than that taken of and the elk are fine!!!!
If everything is stable, poachers, Indians, hunters and ranchers take the same year after year and the elk population is stable and in a few years following the introduction of an apex predator we are looking at some areas wiped out, how can you come up with any other conclusion?
In my area the elk are in good shape, it's ranch country so wolves are shot on sight and it's open enough they can't get away as easy and the elk have some running room. I kill two elk a year, between me and some friends take 20+ elk a year and the ranch has way more than that taken of and the elk are fine!!!!
Hunting Padre
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This will be my second post to this forum. I read a lot and have read every post to this thread. I brings me great sadness that something I have never laid eyes on, but have come to the place in life that I may actually be able to afford to hunt has been wiped out completely or have such dwindling numbers that all may soon be lost forever. I can tell every one of you the root of ALL the problems. It is the government and their misguided attempts to meddle in things they don't understand to do things they have no clue how to do. The mindless drones that have been brainwashed by the educational system we have digressed to in this country do not have the skills needed to see the forest AND the trees. Our government is not to be trusted under any circumstances because every last one of those in government are nothing more than money hungry morons out to better themselves rather than to do one single thing that is right. I think it is a real shame that such beloved animals are headed for extinction all because some government bureaucrat got the bright idea they needed to meddle in something they had no business meddling in with no other desire than to line their pockets with the environmental Nazi's billions that were given to them by the mindless drones we have produced because we have abdicated out responsibilities to raise out own children and teach them the life lessons they need to critically think and make decisions. We are seeing what happens when a nation of parents pays someone else to do their job and never questions what their children are being taught. maybe there needs to be a moratorium on all but wolf tags for 5 years to decimate their numbers and allow the animals a chance to recover. Just my .02 for what it is worth.
mtnwrunner
Well-Known Member
?????????? Man, that will teach me to drink whiskey on a Friday night...........
Randy
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I was going to stay out of the turn this thread has taken, failed. I have been fortunate enough to hunt many places. Of the places I've been, this (Washington State) is the most adversarial, anti-hunting, inept system I've seen. I nearly gave up hunting based on my experiences here. I did give up hunting here for a few years. For a few years one didn't need a license to apply for the special permits, and that's how I managed my hunting dollar here. The other states/provinces have been much better to deal with, and that is reflected in some of the posts.
1) Tribal hunting has been a significant factor in some units. I don't know if its differences in the treaties involved, but yes it has. Wastage was my big issue, just as it is with the hunting community, too many unrecovered animals.
2) If you believe the game departments propaganda trailer, poaching is rampant. One of their own studies said not so much. They write a lot of technical trivial tickets, and try to make much of it. The most recent article in the paper trying to sell their point of view reflects this, but even the cherry picked cases they highlighted looked silly.They have whined about a lack of interest from Spokane prosecutors in their citations, but quite frankly earned that slight by pursuing non-sensical cases. Two of their own were finally caught violating game laws in Montana and were removed, but not before years of abuse here locally. They assume if you're in the woods you're a poacher. They wish to sell the higher priced combo licenses, but have stated publicly, if you have filled your elk or deer tag, they don't believe you're continuing to hunt bear or cougar.
3) Depredation hunts have had effects on elk/deer populations.
However, when the numbers of elk and deer dropped so did the effect of the first 3. Predation by bears, cougars, and coyotes is the constant. Use of hounds, bait, and hounds is prohibited. Trapping limited to very minimal levels. Bear, cougar, and coyote populations have risen significantly. We've had bear and cats in town regularly. Bears are known to take 50% of the elk calves in some units. Cats are killing deer literally in backyards. Coyotes are also at a high. There used to be some aerial gunning by ranchers, and this benefitted the deer populations. I've seen deer run into the yard to get coyotes off their heels. Now into that mix, with not a large game population to begin with we've got wolves. Its taken 40 years to get moose populations to world class. The state has gone from 3 bull tags in one unit, to about 150 combined antler less, youth, any moose in several units. I counted last year, but can't recall the exact number. Now if I'm hearing correctly what happened to the moose in and around Yellowstone isn't going to happen here. Seriously? The only hope our moose have is there isn't enough game to satisfy the wolves, and A) the return to wherever they came from, or B) they start eating livestock and are dealt with like the "Wedge pack". Peoples behaviors can be changed to a degree, based on changing facts, whether they are, tribal, ranchers, or sportsmen. Large predators that hunt 24-7-365, don't get fewer doe tags because the winter was hard. To also be honest across the west more units should have seen drastic reductions in tags, when it became apparent the impact wolves were having. Those kinds of losses would have got the attention of many more hunters. The trend of hiding bad management, behind poachers keeps the greater public satisfied, and the funding coming in. Especially in this area of the urban eco-warrior types that want to believe the public relations Disney has provided the wolf over the years.
1) Tribal hunting has been a significant factor in some units. I don't know if its differences in the treaties involved, but yes it has. Wastage was my big issue, just as it is with the hunting community, too many unrecovered animals.
2) If you believe the game departments propaganda trailer, poaching is rampant. One of their own studies said not so much. They write a lot of technical trivial tickets, and try to make much of it. The most recent article in the paper trying to sell their point of view reflects this, but even the cherry picked cases they highlighted looked silly.They have whined about a lack of interest from Spokane prosecutors in their citations, but quite frankly earned that slight by pursuing non-sensical cases. Two of their own were finally caught violating game laws in Montana and were removed, but not before years of abuse here locally. They assume if you're in the woods you're a poacher. They wish to sell the higher priced combo licenses, but have stated publicly, if you have filled your elk or deer tag, they don't believe you're continuing to hunt bear or cougar.
3) Depredation hunts have had effects on elk/deer populations.
However, when the numbers of elk and deer dropped so did the effect of the first 3. Predation by bears, cougars, and coyotes is the constant. Use of hounds, bait, and hounds is prohibited. Trapping limited to very minimal levels. Bear, cougar, and coyote populations have risen significantly. We've had bear and cats in town regularly. Bears are known to take 50% of the elk calves in some units. Cats are killing deer literally in backyards. Coyotes are also at a high. There used to be some aerial gunning by ranchers, and this benefitted the deer populations. I've seen deer run into the yard to get coyotes off their heels. Now into that mix, with not a large game population to begin with we've got wolves. Its taken 40 years to get moose populations to world class. The state has gone from 3 bull tags in one unit, to about 150 combined antler less, youth, any moose in several units. I counted last year, but can't recall the exact number. Now if I'm hearing correctly what happened to the moose in and around Yellowstone isn't going to happen here. Seriously? The only hope our moose have is there isn't enough game to satisfy the wolves, and A) the return to wherever they came from, or B) they start eating livestock and are dealt with like the "Wedge pack". Peoples behaviors can be changed to a degree, based on changing facts, whether they are, tribal, ranchers, or sportsmen. Large predators that hunt 24-7-365, don't get fewer doe tags because the winter was hard. To also be honest across the west more units should have seen drastic reductions in tags, when it became apparent the impact wolves were having. Those kinds of losses would have got the attention of many more hunters. The trend of hiding bad management, behind poachers keeps the greater public satisfied, and the funding coming in. Especially in this area of the urban eco-warrior types that want to believe the public relations Disney has provided the wolf over the years.
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
It sounds like you guys in WA have more issues with poaching and Native Americans and management in general than we do in MT. Bottom line is that here and our neighboring states, we were able to maintain very good game populations despite poaching and to the best of my knowledge there is no real problems with Native Americans here. In fact, many of the reservations provide excellent hunting and/or fishing to non natives.... for a hefty fee.
That changed with the introduction of wolves. There are still some excellent populations in the state but there are areas that have been ravaged and I only see this problem getting worse. Wolves will breed and spread.
RTK
Well-Known Member
Talking with a few friends of mine, they believe the wolf (wrong species to boot) was introduced and pushed by people that want to stop hunting all together. With all of the idiots we have running this country it is tough to argue with that.
Seems one guy here doesn't want to acknowledge the facts as they are and has his own agenda to push. Must be one of those enlightened ones that introduce the freaking wolf in the first place. Hard to believe he could be a hunter because I don't know a single hunter that thinks the wolf has been helpful in the least and only extremely detrimental.
