Are wolves really the problem

Discussion in 'Elk Hunting' started by longrangehuntr, Aug 18, 2013.

  1. longrangehuntr

    longrangehuntr Well-Known Member

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    Are wolves really killing all the elk, moose and deer?
     
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    They are for sure killing their share. Then couple that with bears taking fawns and big cats taking lots of deer and elk too. The real answer is the elk herd is shrinking and the predator numbers are growing. Wolf numbers here are growing pretty rapidly in my opinion from what I see in my back yard.

    Jeff
     

  3. oldmossy

    oldmossy Well-Known Member

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    Hunters need to correct that problem- when opportunity arises!!!!!!!
     
  4. longrangehuntr

    longrangehuntr Well-Known Member

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    thats what i was going to say, if you see a predator or 2 or 3 just shoot them. the reverse problem exists in new mexico with the oryx gemsbok. it was growing out of control and no predators to maintain them so the nm increased the hunting. game and fish sit on their ass and dont do edition for the most part even when you report a time and location of a problem.
    if i see preds ill be shooting them.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2013
  5. oldmossy

    oldmossy Well-Known Member

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    We have same issue in my home state with bears and coyotes. Deer population terrible. Coyotes are really tough to kill. Bears on the other hand are relatively easy to see. :)
    If a person didn't know better, you would think the president was running our DNR department.
    The day is coming when your families survival is going to depend on living off the land. See how much protection these predators receive from those tree huggers then.
     
  6. HARPERC

    HARPERC Well-Known Member

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    The real problem is the wolves in government, and the sheeple that keep electing them, and allowing them to be exempt from the laws they inflict on the rest of us.
     
  7. gillettehunter

    gillettehunter Well-Known Member

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    I think that wolves have had a significant impact in a number of areas. Take a look at Western Wy and their moose pop. 25 years ago the F@G was issuing 50 to over 100 antlered bull moose permits in most of the hunt units around Jackson Hole. This year not a unit with over 30 in the state. Surveys a couple of years ago showed less than 10 calves per 100 cows. Prior to the wolves it was 60 plus. Bears also take moose and elk calves. Wolves are not the only predator.
    Next you can look at the Yellowstone elk herd. If I remember right that herd is down about 50% from pre wolf days.
    Next the Clearwater herd in N. Idaho. They are down a whopping 70% and its NOT mostly bear predation. The Idaho F@G has had to do some aerial shooting on wolves because they have done so much damage to the local herd.
    What it boils down to is wolves are a predator. They eat meat. Every deer/elk/moose they eat is one less that sportsman can take. I don't mind some around, but they have gotten out of hand. We were told about a minimum level when they transplanted them in and then changed that number drastically UP. I don't like being lied to. I no longer hunt elk in Western Wy because the areas I hunted no longer support the numbers of elk that they used to.
    I used to hunt near Moran Junction. Opening day it was common to see 75-150 elk taken. The last year I hunted there I was told of 3 being taken. Their was a wolf den on the hill I usually hunt. I didn't think it was a coincident. Careful control is needed or it will only get worse. Bruce
     
  8. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    Here are the stats from Montana FWP...

    Northern Yellowstone elk population continues to drop

    The Northern Yellowstone Herd population is down to 3900 form 19,000 since the wolves were introduced. Thats' an 80% drop.

    You tell me.....
     
  9. SDflyfisher

    SDflyfisher Member

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    Not to sure what exact areas of the country ya'll are talking about but I think around WY and north into montana and surrounding areas the Wolves are doing there fair share in killing off wildlife. Here's a article about what some of our very well know Elk foundations are doing for wolf managment. I think theres something to be said when RMEF thinks we need to keep a eye on the wolves in these surrounding areas.

    RMEF Grant to Help Wolf Management in Wyoming
     
  10. longrangehuntr

    longrangehuntr Well-Known Member

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    From what i gather, poachers/ native americans are killing all the elk and game and fish can't do anything about it. people don't think twice about poaching since the fines are minimal at best. I don't see how placing someone on probation for a few years will do anything since they broke the law in the fist place. the native americans can do whatever they want when it comes to elk and salmon fishing.
     
  11. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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  12. MontanaRifleman

    MontanaRifleman Well-Known Member

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    You gather wrong. There has always been poaching and Native Americans usually hunt on the reservations and police themselves and have very little affect on the general elk populations. Fines along with loosing hunting privileges can be quite severe here in Montana for poachers and sometimes jail time.

    Anyone who doesn't think wolves are responsible for drastically declining game populations here in the lower 48 has a severe case of denial.
     
  13. dgarrett

    dgarrett Well-Known Member

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    In my part of the state we had record high numbers of elk and whitetail deer for years before wolves. The F and G were even giving out lots of B elk tags. Bears, Lions , Poachers and Coyotes were also at record numbers and the Elk Herds expanded almost every year. Mule Deer numbers seemed to be in decline long before that and the Moose were holding steady. What changed. Nothing but the introduction of Wolves. Moose are almost extinct now. Complete local Elk populations are wiped out. Complete gene pools gone. As far as I am conserned the RMEF was part of the problem also. They work closely with the F and G and never made a public statement against wolves till 6 or 7 years after they were turned loose. This was years after the reports of the Gardner Herd being wiped out. They definely did not stand up for their members. I spent 100 days a year Lion hunting and watched the expansion of the wolves through their tracks in the snow. I would watch the Local TV News and some dim whit would be saying the F and G estimates there are 9 packs of wolves in Montana now... What a crock when I knew for sure there was 10-12 packs between here and Wisdom. Its a shame but I think the hay days of good game populations are behind us. dgarrett
     
  14. longrangehuntr

    longrangehuntr Well-Known Member

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    the killing of the 176 by 2 wolves is bs, not possible for 2 wolves to kill that many sheep and pile them up. they may have spooked them and they ran off that cliff where the pictures shows them dead.
    Im sure wolves kill their share but it is also the poachers/native americans killing trophy bulls as well as the spikes before they can bread that are doing in the population. without a mature population to bread you will have less calves in the future. just like the guys that go crabbing in wa. they take the crabs that are not legal as females that they are not suppose to catch and they over fish/crab areas. with poaching on the rise as well as NA tribs going out and killing bulls for ritual purposes hurts the over all numbers since gf cannot track that. If you want the herds to improve need to do something about the poachers. if you break the law once you will break it again. if poachers lost everything, trucks, guns, atv's, campers you name it then it might stop. the youtube vids where gf set up the fake deer and elk shows just how worthless the fines are. NA tribes in wa, nm are right next to the national forests and they chase the big game onto the reservations.