Any customized Arrow Rests for TAC 15 ?

Discussion in 'PSE TAC 15/15i Crossbow Hunting Forum' started by OkieBowie, Mar 28, 2011.

  1. OkieBowie

    OkieBowie Well-Known Member

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    Wondering if anyone has experimented with using a different Arrow Rest (bought or home-brew) for the TAC 15?

    I considered, (but never got around too trying), an arrow rest ("Air-Rest") that uses magnets to levitate the arrow, thus no contact / interference. Normally, such an arrow rest would be difficult to use on a regular bow due to need to keep the arrow once drawn in very narrow-window of draw-length. However, that would not have been an issue on a TAC 15, since once drawn, the draw-length does not change.
     
  2. meatrun

    meatrun New Member

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    I have seen a you tube vid of someone using something other then the whisker bisqit. I was wondering if a drop away will work. However i love this Crossbow so much i am afraid to change a thing.
     

  3. austin_103

    austin_103 New Member

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_xI4RieAzc]‪TAC 15 Lose the biscut! Keep fletchings fresh! Get a QAD Mod. drop away‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]
     
  4. distantfoe

    distantfoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm questioning if the drop away rest can make it out of the way with that fast of a bow. I know of a standard bow doing 415fps that became erratic when switching from a bodoodle to a shakey hunter fall away.
     
  5. jon.henry755

    jon.henry755 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Okiebowie,
    The rest that is being displayed is a QAD Drop Away Rest and the video is of a prototype that was made by Frank, from Archery Unlimited, Inc. They are located in Grand Rapids, Michigan and can be reached at 866-670-8511. or info@archeryunlimitedinc.com

    Frank has not started production of any of these rest yet. He's planning on producing a few by hand with his CAD Machine, but they will be somewhat expensive, since the base QAD rest sells for $130. and then the set up to do the machined bracket to adapt it to the TAC15's 8is about 4 hours of labor. Then the bracket must be sent out to anodize it for rust proofing, so you can imagine what the approximate price might be.

    The minute you decide to go to this type of a rest, you'll also need to shorten your Weaver Style Rail so a 3 fletch will slide back to the fully cocked position. If you look closely at the video, you'll notice he modified his TAC15 to allow for this.

    Although I like the idea of using a drop away rest, since all my competition compound bows are set with them, I won't adapt one to my TAC15i because it's way to much money and to little performance gained.

    I'm not a fan of the Whisker Biscuit because I don't like anything making contact with my arrows as they pass over or through a rest. I also don't like the fact that the biscuits wear over time and they're also affected by temperature changes. I'm not sure if you've ever seen what happens when it gets really cold and your Whisker Biscuit freezes?

    At $130 dollars for a good drop away rest, that's not to unreasonable, but if I have to pay double that for a rest, then the cost just became out of hand for my tastes.

    I told Frank, I'm willing to test and evaluate his units in a couple of months and then produce some pre-release articles for him, but I have no interest in changing to or using these rests if I would need to refletch all my arrows to 3 fletch configurations. I'm well tuned with what I have, so it's not providing any significant benefits to me.

    I watched the video and noted a couple things. One was the fact that they claim they're shooting about 50 meter, yet if you watch him adjust his HHA Optimizer Speed Dial, he's clearly using a 20 yard setting. His accuracy at 20 yards is absolutely terrible. I can shoot out the X's on a 1.5" florescent dot at 50 yards all day long with my TAC15i, so he needs to do some serious tuning from what I can see.

    He states that he's using 160 grain points on his arrows. We know from testing and experience that the more weight you add to the TAC15 Arrows, the flight anomalies develop and PSE's engineers have confirmed this. That's why they recommend broadheads that do not exceed 100 grains.

    When I spoke to Frank, he stated that between the silencing materials he has applied and his arrows being over 600 grains, his velocity is about 350 fps. No problem with that as long as he's not attempting any long range shots at 80 to 100 yards.

    I hope this information helps with your search?

    Jon
     
  6. Len Backus

    Len Backus Administrator Staff Member

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    Jon

    Tell me more.
     
  7. jon.henry755

    jon.henry755 Well-Known Member

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    Hi Len,
    The Whisker Biscuit becomes stiffer as temperatures drop, so unless you are using something like the product "Venom" which is a combination lubricant and waterproofing, the Whisker Biscuits can absorb dampness and become brittle or frozen when the temps drop below the freezing mark.

    This alters performance and increases wear and tear on the rest. As I'm also sure you're aware the Whisker Biscuit Assembly has screws which are loosened and tightened to make adjustments for center shot alignment and paper tuning. While this is a possible means of performing adjustments, it's by no means an optimal way to do so.

    No competitive archer would ever consider this as an acceptable means to achieve perfect tuning or adjust-ability. Really good competition type arrow rests will always have separate micro-adjustments with measurement scales for both windage and elevation adjustments. These devices don't come standard on any bow, so they're strictly after market additions, but worth every penny considering the fact that they take the guess work out of tuning and adjusting ones arrow rest and they allow the shooter to make precise consistent micro-tweaks that can be repeated any time by using the calibration scales on the adjustments.

    These rests have no real wear areas and are not subject to temperature changes. They can't apply friction to a shaft because most drop away through either spring tension or collapse via their rope connections.

    The key is developing an affordable bracket that will support these types of rests, so they can be adapted to the TAC15's.

    The Whisker Biscuit was designed as a cheap and dirty rest for hunters and for the most part it servers that purpose, but that's where it's usefulness ends when compared to really good arrow rests.

    Is that enough information on this subject or is there something else I can help you with?

    Regards,

    Jon
     
  8. OkieBowie

    OkieBowie Well-Known Member

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    That is a no go for me. I am willing to modify arrow fletching such as going from four-fletch to a two-fletch or changing out the trigger/hammer assembly, but not modifying the bow's main body.

    But I am all for those who want to modify theirs. :rolleyes:
     
  9. OkieBowie

    OkieBowie Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense to me. The more point weight, the more the arrows are initially forced to flex, which also means the more variations in the arrows flexing are going to have an effect on arrow flight.

    I can in-vision variations beyond the direction of flex and the amount of flex, such as where along the arrow it flexes (front to back), and even the possibility of the amount of time it takes the arrow to stop flexing (number of oscillations).
     
  10. OkieBowie

    OkieBowie Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention (but I am) that the arrows fletching are whacking their way threw the Biscuits' whiskers every time. Nothing like randomly re-tuning your arrows fletching on each and every shot.
     
  11. jon.henry755

    jon.henry755 Well-Known Member

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    Somebody has mastered an understanding of "Arrow Spine and Tip Weight"! If I didn't know better I'd think the student has become a master.

    Your words sound like they were coming out of my mouth, because I couldn't have said it any better myself. If more people would take the time to read and understand this information we'd be answering a lot less questions or statements based on an absence of understanding the basics of arrow flight.

    As tip weight increases, the shaft will always flex more, since the laws of physics don't ever lie.

    As the shaft flexes more, there is considerably more disruption moving thru the Whisker Biscuit. This includes the fletching, but we have also seen in slow motion footage what is know as the "Archer's Paradox". This is where the arrow shaft flexes well outside and around a given arrow rest as it moves forward to launch. The shaft does recover each time as it moves down range and clears the bow, but imagine what this looks like in slow motion when it must pass through a Whisker Biscuit style arrow rest. Violent is an understatement. I'd more likely classify it as pure ugly!

    This is why PSE's engineers and anybody else with an engineering background will tell archers to be careful about adding extra tip weight to their shafts.

    Move to a different launch platform and you might have some additional lead way.

    Okie, Thanks again for your insightful knowledge and being the voice of reason on this.

    Jon