Another Newbie needs help finding a rifle

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by Guest, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I am new to the site but have been looking through the previous posts and have obtained a lot of info but I'm still caught up in the decision of what caliber and brand of rifle I should buy. I am only 17 about 180 lbs and am new to long range shooting all together. I want the rifle to be as acurate as possible out to a little over 1000 yds and a flat shooting caliber because I will be juging yardage. I want it to be light enough to drag all over the mountains and yet on the same token I don't want it to kick me too hard (i'm thinking around 10-11 pounds because i would put up with the extra weight before the extra recoil) because of my nature to develop a flinch. I am an avid reloader and that isn't an issue. However another issue is that when everything is said and done I don't want it be anymore than $1500. That is with scope and all. Suggestions on the scope would be helpful as well. Oh and my brother is good with gunsmithing and he can do the barrel work for cheap. Basically I am asking what are the features that build a long range accurate rifle?

    Remember I don't want excess recoil! I was thinking maybe a 7mm rem mag since it has many differnt load options.

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
     
  2. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    No buttons pushed--just want to make sure if you do this, do it right. That wasnt yelling, just emphasis--sorry.

    I too have used a nikon and bushnell--none of them compare to the leica--my leica 800 stomped a bushy 1000 in my small side-by-side test!! they actually work past where they say--I ranged a treestump in a fence row at 972yds with my leica 800!! on an overcast day--sell the rangefinders you have on ebay and buy yourself a leica--you will not be dissapointed!

    the 6.5-284 actually should be sufficient for the blacktails, but the 7mm's may be a little better.

    Judging just isnt the way to go and expect to actually humanely dispatch big critters--that is the only point i was trying to get across--you owe it to them to laser the range to the best of your abilities--I dont think anyone here would disagree with me.

    To 500yds with a flat shooting round you might be safe, but past that i wouldnt count on it.

    Im thinking heavy barrel savage in 7mag or WSM [​IMG]

    JB
     

  3. orwapitihunter

    orwapitihunter Well-Known Member

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    Littl' Flinches,

    I don't think you pushed jb's buttons, he is just trying to keep you from making a bad choice. When a bullet is falling 40" in 100 yards you need to KNOW the range not just guess at it. From my experience with my Bushnell 1000 and my buddies Leica 1200 I would give his unit a slight edge. Seems from what I have read here my unit may perform better than the standard. Buy the Leica! If you can't get a reading get closer!

    You are also going to need a quality scope. Look at the Leupolds, Bushnell 4200, and Nikons. I think you should chose one of these offerings with a top end between 10X and 20X. I use a 4.5-14 Leupold. You will also need either target turrets or some type of mil-dot type reticle. Guessing what a 140" over his back isn't going to cut it. [​IMG]

    Your choice of caliber is in the right ball park. I think a Remington Sendero in 7 mag or a similar caliber or a 7WSM Coyote by Winchester. Remington, Winchester, and Savage all have several combos that fit your situation. Go put your hands on a few till one tickles your fancy. Then have the trigger touched up and go to work.

    Good luck and welcome!
     
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Thanks for the input I have heard a lot of bad things about the savages in the past but all the newer models seem to be performing excellent for everyone on this forum and I definitely like their prices!
    I think that is what I am going to go with, a 7mm rem mag because then i can mooch ammo and reloading componets from my dad. Then I plan to top it off with either a 4-14 Leupold or a 6.5-20 Leupold with the target turrets.

    I don't understand the finger ajustable 1/4 MOA leupold scopes that don't seem to have any more raised of a turret than the standard screw driver ajusting scopes? Are they just more compact? How do they work?
     
  5. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    they are the same height as the ones that you need a tool to turn--excep there is just enough knurled knob to get a hold of an spin by hand--im guessing you still have to get on top to see which direction you are turning though--kind of a PITA--with turrets you can see which way you are spinning from prone [​IMG]

    JB
     
  6. COBrad

    COBrad Well-Known Member

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    In regards to your scope choices, I would suggest the 4x14 might be a better choice for big game only because of the wider field of view at the low end. For all the fun I have practicing at long range, it seem that almost every year my elk show up around 100 yards, and sometimes closer. I've never not had enough scope for the long shot, but I once had a client using a 6.5x20 that had to pass a shot because the elk was sooo close that all he could see was hair.
     
  7. jb1000br

    jb1000br Well-Known Member

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    first of all--judging distance while trying to humanely kill large game is a NO-NO--i dont care how good you think you can judge distance you arent good enough to consistantly come within 10yds all the way out to 1000--NO WAY IN HE!!

    best bet would be to get whichever leica rangefinder you can afford (300-450$) -- your quarry deserves to be ranged accurately if you are gonna wing shots past 1/2 a mile at them.

    aint nuttin out there flat enough to make up for bad judgement!!

    for whitetail and below the 6.5-284 would probably be enough for 1k or a little more--for anything bigger, the 7mag or 7wsm would be a good choiuce with recoil in mind--make sure you muzzle brake it at 10-11 lbs!

    FWIW,
    JB
     
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I appreciate the recomendation of the leica rangefinder. I have a bushnell yardage pro 600 but it and every other rangefinder I have tried are only good to about half of what they are rated at therefore i figured that there was no need to waste the money on a 1000 yard rangefinder that would only be reliable to 500 yards.

    I live in Northern California and just only hunt the Columbian Blacktail Deer that at the max are around 150 pounds (at least where I hunt.) SO I think you are right about not needing to go any larger than a 7mm mag.

    But sorry to push your buttons if i said something wrong.
     
  9. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    LF,

    I'll say this first, only because it's most important you approach this from a responsible dirrection from your begining into this most personally rewarding endevour. Out to 300-400 yards, maybe 500 or so, you might be close enough in judging range after some good experimentation with your rangefinder, but out there and beyond that it is way to tricky to accurately guess within 50 yards, sometimes even 150-200 yards even. After you study ballistics out there at those distances for a little while, one soon comes to the only logical conclusion possible; The range must be within 25 yards, better to be within 10-15 if you're gettin on near 1000 yards away, or you simply hit too high or low no matter what MV and BC you're running. Once you hit an animal, and you know it was just fool luck you did, either because you guessed close, walked the rounds in when you found out you were wrong on the first one... or two... or three, or you wound one and it runs off on you or just lays there and suffers makin you feel real bad about your decision to take the questionable shot... You will start to rethink your approach to long range hunting and what you really want to do the next time you're faced with that decision. Do I prepare more by buying better gear to increase my "effective" range, use a better rest to put it all together, determine my rifle and my capability at any range with enviromental conditions I plan on hunting in, or just do what any person with a rifle and ammo can do, nearly ignore the most important variable in long range by guessing, sprayin and prayin.

    If you have any self respect, and pride yourself in placing a killing shot every time you pull the trigger, which I'm guessing you do, you'll never be satisfied with taking a shot with a rifle, load and range that you are not totally confident in.

    Guys here will hunt with a proven rig, load, and range verification, all within the abilities they've proven to themself to be 100% successful at day in and day out.

    If anyone didn't have a rangefinder and mentioned they were thinking they'd be OK guessing at 500-600 yard shots until they did, they'd get the same thoughtful replies, so at 1000 yards or a bit more is mentioned, it's more than necessary to point out the problems in detail.


    I'd buy the Lieca 1200 Scan model, THEN either a B&L 3200 or 4200 Elite, new Leupold VX-3, then get a rifle you prefer. $1500 will easily buy all three, plus a Harris bipod I wouldn't be without.

    I looked at the new Leupold VX-3 4.5-14 with the B&C reticle, it has finger adjustable turrets. It also has 70 MOA vertical adjustment from stop to stop, more than it was rated for.

    I wouldn't sweat going with a Savage one bit, but a 300 mag would be my choice. The 300 Ultra with the brake, kicks less than an '06 but way more retained energy near 1000 yards, and MUCH less wind drift. And wind drift will be your range limiting factor.

    One note - I get 600 yard readings from my Bushnell YP1000 LRF routinely, often out to 800 with a little patience. When it isn't too bright out, near dawn and dusk it will go past 1000 pretty easy, and in lower light it's went to 1400 yards on certain objects, 1200-1300 on many. A friend's Lieca 1200 was a bit better than mine when we compared them once during the day at 600-1000 yards.
     
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    been thinking about this post for an hour now...

    LF, the first thing you will notice is that this "game" takes $$$ and at 17, $$$ is usually spent on chicks and cars, I was a poster child for that at one time.. [​IMG]

    I have had just about every lazer range finder on the market... this is by far one of the most important aspects of this game... even the military guys who use the mil-dot system have a hard time getting within 10-20 yards of a target.

    It sounds as though you are going at this alone.. and here is a problem.. I know, I did it... there are A-LOT of things to learn and without someone there with you .. it takes TIME!! Again, I will be redundant and say that you need to start with a caliber and rifle that can teach you something.. the .308 no question about it... unless you reload you will have a hard time finding any quality ammo out there that is consistent from lot to lot.. with the 308 you have a few really good choices for ammo... The 308 is more than enough for the blacktail... out to about 750 yards or so.. for you and just starting this venture .. thats a long way... even if you started shooting today and shot every other day until the season starts you might not even be ready for a shot over 500 if you need to range, calculate the angle and take the necessary steps to place that first shot where it counts.. your gonna need to start to learn the ballistics of the rifle your shooting, how use the scope you choose etc. all that take A-LOT of range time which also takes alot of money.. which for me was tough to come by at 17 when all my buddies were out crusin and trying to put notches on the belt [​IMG]

    I'm not saying it can't be done .. what I am saying is that even getting into this cheaply is expensive.. ( if that makes sense )

    Personaly I would go with a Rem.. because when you get through the learning process you can have a smith easily build on the action...

    scopes... man.. lupy is hard to beat as an entry level... and more... they can be had for sale on several boards... you NEED turets no question..

    just my thoughts .. this is a serious game and not to be taken lightly or haphazardly when you feel like it .. it takes serious dedication.... prepare yourself....