Always getting flyers

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by WapitiBob, May 27, 2013.

  1. WapitiBob

    WapitiBob Well-Known Member

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    Any ideas as to why I'm getting flyers? They seem to be the same distance from the main group. First pic was shot last a week before the other two. Outside temp maybe 60 deg. Good cross wind.

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    Same load as above, shot one week later, but temp was 20 deg colder. Barrel never got warmer than luke warm. 6 shots total. First 2 shots, cold bore, were almost touching. 3rd shot was the 1st low flyer.

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    3 shots but bullet seated into the lands at 3.195" to ogive vs 3.175". Shot a few minutes after picture 2. Barrel never got hot but there was probably a 20 deg swing in barrel temp.

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    Primers are Fed 215 and seated with a hand seater that has a solid stop.
    Once fired brass, 7mm mag bump die set to just touch shoulder and zero bump.
    I re set the pan with every adjustment to the powder charge till the scale zeroes. Scale weight is verified with check weights.
    I do notice that on occasion a cartridge will measure long from the bullet ogive to case base. I then adjust the press and continue seating till that cartridge measures within .001.
     
  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    That second pic is screaming loose scope or faulty mounting system, or bad scope to me.

    Jeff
     

  3. X-man

    X-man Well-Known Member

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  4. WapitiBob

    WapitiBob Well-Known Member

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    If the scope was loose, would it return to zero in the middle of the string?
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    It could. What I see there is a "double group" situation. I have found that this comonly is related to an internal scope issue where the reticle is actually moving to two locations. But it could also be caused by a slight movement of a loose ring or scope base. Also I have seen this with less expensive mounts as well.

    Jeff
     
  6. WapitiBob

    WapitiBob Well-Known Member

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    thanks Broz. I'll look into that. Leupold mounts, not the twist kind, and greybull/leupold scope. They're all torqued down but I recall when I remounted the scope I think I went went lighter on the ring torque after reading some posts.
     
  7. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Did I miss the rifle details ? Those "double groups" look like a poorly bedded action moving with the recoil. I did see 73gr of powder and 180gr bullets noted, so there should be plenty of recoil. It would be about "standard" for a 308 Remington SPS with the plastic stock. If you do a search on you tube for "remington sps bedding job" you should find a few videos illustrating the problem.
     
  8. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    What I would do is pull it all off looking for a problem. If I found a mount or ring I could identify as the culprit and was moving I would fix that. If not I would install a scope I know groups good. Kinda a pain if you have to pull a scope off another rifle, but cheaper than components.

    I had 3 do this to me before I left the Leupold user club. Two in one season, all on Weatherby rifles. Sent the scopes in and they gladly repaired them. I then sold them all.

    Jeff
     
  9. WapitiBob

    WapitiBob Well-Known Member

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    Rifle is a 7STW, Rem factory action/barrel in a Greybull stock. PRW rings torqued to 28#. I bedded the rifle myself, recoil lug taped only on the btm, fits snug and action torqued to 60#.
    I will remount everything and check again. I have another scope but it's a $60 Bushnell.
     
  10. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I have those kind of scopes to very good,,, for pounding in tent stakes.:D

    Jeff
     
  11. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    usually, but if he wants a nice round cut over his eye he could give it a whirl.

    as far as the groups, they have the look of the rifle rolling in the bags (letting the rifle twist) once in a while to me. Are you letting the bbl. cool down as you shoot?? Rem factory pipes can sometimes get funky when they warm up.

    my list for this would be
    1, bad load
    2. twisting in bags occasionally-- shooting form
    3. scope- rings, etc.
    4. bedding
    5. funky factory bbl.
     
  12. Trickymissfit

    Trickymissfit Well-Known Member

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    here's a test I often do to isolate the problem. I use one case, and will file a notch on the rim to aid in indexing it. I then shoot one round, and then reload with the same exact load again for four more times. If I still get fliers, I start to look at the platform instead of the loads. It's also very important to have the rifle exactly in the same position. If your shooting off a windage plate, then sprinkle a little talcum powders on the front bag. I fixed the flier isssue a couple times with that alone.
    gary
     
  13. jasent

    jasent Well-Known Member

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    Looks like paralex issue to me. Could be just you too. I think if it was loose mounts or rings you would have more flyers and less consistent grouping. as a general rule I spend the same on a scope as I do on a gun. If you think about it you gun is only as good as its sights/scope. Fwi a gun/ scope is only as good as its user.
     
  14. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    I thought the same thing. I had this happen twice in the past year with a scope that had parallax issues at the distance I was shooting.

    It should be easy to diagnose it though. If you set up at the range, move your head, and then see the reticle moving on the target you've got your answer.