advantages 30.06AI VS STD.
- Thread starter cheeta732
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gunsmith
Active Member
Yes, the Parker Omar Ackley Improved .30-'06 averages about 200 feet per second faster than the standard round. You do have to have the barrel cut, and fire-form your brass, but some brass used to be available, as the AI .30-'06 was one of the more popular Ackleys, and he made barrels for perhaps 50 years.
Slightly flatter shooting, slightly more range, is it worth the effort? Quite a lot of people thought so. Then the .270 came along and did the same thing - 200 fps faster than the standard '06.
An Ackley Improved Winchester .270 goes about 400 fps faster than the '06, somewhat significant. Flatter shooting yet, a little more range yet. That would make a nice Pronghorn / mountain goat / deer / black bear rifle. But now there are new rounds doing that. The 6.5-.284 Norma is now standardized, one of the most accurate rounds in the world, and can be made to perform even higher. Still, I'd be happy to get the .270 AI, or the .30-'06, especially if they shot tight groups.
Slightly flatter shooting, slightly more range, is it worth the effort? Quite a lot of people thought so. Then the .270 came along and did the same thing - 200 fps faster than the standard '06.
An Ackley Improved Winchester .270 goes about 400 fps faster than the '06, somewhat significant. Flatter shooting yet, a little more range yet. That would make a nice Pronghorn / mountain goat / deer / black bear rifle. But now there are new rounds doing that. The 6.5-.284 Norma is now standardized, one of the most accurate rounds in the world, and can be made to perform even higher. Still, I'd be happy to get the .270 AI, or the .30-'06, especially if they shot tight groups.
Lefty7mmstw
Well-Known Member
Why Bother. If you are going to something else, go with a 300 mag or one of the 7mags. The 3% case capacity gain is a 1.5% at best gain in velocity. Most gain on AI rounds is actually made by higher pressures, not the AI format. The backthrust on the bolt is less, so you won't get stiff bolt lift as quickly. To me they are a joke.
Wow, looked at the date on the first post--3 years + ago. Dang that's digging up a dead one!
Wow, looked at the date on the first post--3 years + ago. Dang that's digging up a dead one!
Trickymissfit
Well-Known Member
Mr. Ackley improved the 30-06 case to help fight the brass flow. Any gains in velocity are an added bonus. Most guys I know that went with the Ackley case never saw much over 150fps in a 22" or 24" barrel, but their cases were esier to work with. Yet a .338-06 compaired to a .338-06AI is a different animal. You will often see a minimum of 175fps greater velocity. The Ackley case seems to head space a little better with larger bullet diameters
Another interesting thing to do is to run the ballistics of the 30-06 compaired to the 7mm mag. The 7mm has about 110 foot pounds more energy at 500 yards and shoots about 4" flatter with a 200 yard zero. But if you shot the Hornaday SST at 180 grains to 2800 pfs with a 200 zero, you drop about five inches more, but the energy would be nearly the same with much heavier bullet construction. All this with ten grains less powder and a much easier case to work with down the road.
gary
Another interesting thing to do is to run the ballistics of the 30-06 compaired to the 7mm mag. The 7mm has about 110 foot pounds more energy at 500 yards and shoots about 4" flatter with a 200 yard zero. But if you shot the Hornaday SST at 180 grains to 2800 pfs with a 200 zero, you drop about five inches more, but the energy would be nearly the same with much heavier bullet construction. All this with ten grains less powder and a much easier case to work with down the road.
gary
gunsmith
Active Member
I tend to agree with you guys. I wouldn't go to the trouble nowadays, but I'd happily accept a long-barreled (28"+) Ackley for a good price if it wasn't shot out and it laid a decent group. I wouldn't mind customizing the fit and accurizing one either.
I had a Remington 700 in .30-'06 AI several years ago. It had a 27 1/2" barrel and a Redfield scope. I got rid of it for the strangest problem - it shot a .383" average group at 100 yards. It shot 1.103" average at 200 yards. It shot all over the place at 300 yards. It shot 5.112" average at 400 yards. Now how does a gun know when its aiming at 300 yards? I scratched a hole in my brain trying to figure it out. 2 years after I sold it, I think I figured it out. a small blemish on the scope right where I hold a 300 was probably throwing me off.
I love the Remington 7mm, the SAUM, and the Win .300 WSSM for performance, but my firepower limit is around 180 grains in a .30-'06, above which I don't enjoy a day at the range too much. The 7mm leaves me feeling pretty bee stung in the hands and surfing a good headache. A .300 Win Mag only takes about 10 rounds to make me want a cold lemonade break. You can imagine the joy I got out of the pendejo who wanted his .477 Nitro Express accurized? I should have turned that job down, but I needed the money. A month later, I'm still sore in the biceps and shoulder, and my teeth, too.
Given the choice, I'd go straight to that 6.5-.284 Norma on the Savage Long Range Hunter. It's almost exactly what I was designing for myself. What ever the gains in downrange performance other rounds may have, this makes up for it in bullet placement. The round set 12 world records at Camp Perry a couple years back. Packs enough juice for a black bear at 400 yards. Beyond that, I doubt I'd shoot a bear - I don't like the meat that much. The only bear I've shot were charging at close range.
I had a Remington 700 in .30-'06 AI several years ago. It had a 27 1/2" barrel and a Redfield scope. I got rid of it for the strangest problem - it shot a .383" average group at 100 yards. It shot 1.103" average at 200 yards. It shot all over the place at 300 yards. It shot 5.112" average at 400 yards. Now how does a gun know when its aiming at 300 yards? I scratched a hole in my brain trying to figure it out. 2 years after I sold it, I think I figured it out. a small blemish on the scope right where I hold a 300 was probably throwing me off.
I love the Remington 7mm, the SAUM, and the Win .300 WSSM for performance, but my firepower limit is around 180 grains in a .30-'06, above which I don't enjoy a day at the range too much. The 7mm leaves me feeling pretty bee stung in the hands and surfing a good headache. A .300 Win Mag only takes about 10 rounds to make me want a cold lemonade break. You can imagine the joy I got out of the pendejo who wanted his .477 Nitro Express accurized? I should have turned that job down, but I needed the money. A month later, I'm still sore in the biceps and shoulder, and my teeth, too.
Given the choice, I'd go straight to that 6.5-.284 Norma on the Savage Long Range Hunter. It's almost exactly what I was designing for myself. What ever the gains in downrange performance other rounds may have, this makes up for it in bullet placement. The round set 12 world records at Camp Perry a couple years back. Packs enough juice for a black bear at 400 yards. Beyond that, I doubt I'd shoot a bear - I don't like the meat that much. The only bear I've shot were charging at close range.
Dano1
Well-Known Member
I have a .30-06 AI and have had it for several years. The reason why I chose to go with this was that it was something I could do with minimal gunsmithing required to the action that I had on hand and that fit into my budget for building and loading budget. There are certainly better rounds that are available now that nullifies the need for the .30-06 AI. The gains that one achieves from the rifle are mostly dependant on extra barrel length, not because of case capacity increases. (If loaded to the same pressures). The standard .30-06 in factory form is poorly under-loaded/powered and is loaded that way to be able to function in all varieties and grades of rifles that are chambered in it.
All this being said, with careful handloading one can see much improvement over the standard factory .30-06 (if done properly). I really spent alot of time developing loads for my rifle. It is a Remington 700 ADL converted to a BDL wearing a grey/black Faijen stock. It has a 26" Kreiger 1-10"twist (heavy bull sporter taper) bbl that has been fully accurized and has a Timney trigger installed. It wears a Leupold 4.5-14x44mm Mark 4 Precision Rifle scope. I have shot it out to 1000yds and makes a good rock slayer that far. It has cleanly taken Muledeer and Cow Elk out to 525yds.
The most accurate load for it is a 168g Berger VLD with H4350 and BR-2 Primers. They are loaded on the hot side and are max loads according to Quickload. The primer pockets are toast usually after the 5th loading. I average 3125FPS (10 shot average). I have also developed 190g Berger loads and 165g Sierra Gameking Loads all with H4350 and BR-2 primers.
I love this rifle and will never sell it. It is so accurate that I'd be stupid to sell it.
I'm one of those types who like to do something diffrent, I'm not a speed freak or I would have built a .300 Win, WSM or RUM. Those may come later, But Its fun to shoot and great for my current needs.
Here are a couple of photos of my baby! Sorry I don't have any photos of my targets on my computer...
This is after installing the Leupold scope.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend building one as a long range build, but this one was never meant to do that. The 190g Load can work as a long range hunting load, but I try to be conservative with this rifle. I have a 7STW for the long range shooting.
Dan
All this being said, with careful handloading one can see much improvement over the standard factory .30-06 (if done properly). I really spent alot of time developing loads for my rifle. It is a Remington 700 ADL converted to a BDL wearing a grey/black Faijen stock. It has a 26" Kreiger 1-10"twist (heavy bull sporter taper) bbl that has been fully accurized and has a Timney trigger installed. It wears a Leupold 4.5-14x44mm Mark 4 Precision Rifle scope. I have shot it out to 1000yds and makes a good rock slayer that far. It has cleanly taken Muledeer and Cow Elk out to 525yds.
The most accurate load for it is a 168g Berger VLD with H4350 and BR-2 Primers. They are loaded on the hot side and are max loads according to Quickload. The primer pockets are toast usually after the 5th loading. I average 3125FPS (10 shot average). I have also developed 190g Berger loads and 165g Sierra Gameking Loads all with H4350 and BR-2 primers.
I love this rifle and will never sell it. It is so accurate that I'd be stupid to sell it.
I'm one of those types who like to do something diffrent, I'm not a speed freak or I would have built a .300 Win, WSM or RUM. Those may come later, But Its fun to shoot and great for my current needs.
Here are a couple of photos of my baby! Sorry I don't have any photos of my targets on my computer...
This is after installing the Leupold scope.
I wouldn't necessarily recommend building one as a long range build, but this one was never meant to do that. The 190g Load can work as a long range hunting load, but I try to be conservative with this rifle. I have a 7STW for the long range shooting.
Dan
not in my opinion. anything you can do with one I can do with my 30.06.
