Accubonds at 3700 fps

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by oldfamily, Sep 25, 2006.

  1. oldfamily

    oldfamily Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    333
    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2005
    Worked up a load for my stw with the 110 grain accubonds, I am getting 3700 fps with the bullet with sub moa groups at 100 yards. The only thing that I am wondering is how will this bullet hold up? I am using ramshot magnum and fed 210 primers, wondering if this will be a ballistic tip type bullet at this speed. thanks oldfamily
     
  2. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Depends on what you poke with them and where you hit them. If your shooting smaller southern deer you should not have a problem at all.

    If you are hunting larger mid west or northern deer, stay away from the shoulder knuckle just to be on the safe side, other then that they should still perform very well. On chest shots they should be devastating at this velocity.

    I used to use the 100 gr Bonded Core Wildcat FBHP bullet in my old 257 STW(pre Allen Mag era!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif) and loaded them up to 3950 fps in the 30" barrel. Took several head of game with them. For pronghorns I think you would be hard pressed to find a more lethal combo out to 600 yards or so.

    On larger deer, they worked very well but penetration was not through and through. That is why I moved up to the 130 gr version.

    Your 110 gr Accubonds have a MUCH heavier jacket then those bullets as well as a heavy solid base. Your bullet may turn into a mangles mess of copper and lead but it will stay together enough to get the job done on deer size critters.

    If your hunting heavy deer though, I would again recommend that you do not intentionally aim for the shoulder knuckle just in case.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     

  3. kraky

    kraky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    I just loaded a friends 300 wby with 200 ab's at 2950 fps. He got a nice elk broadside through the heart lung area at 320 yds. But I was surprised the bullet didn't do a pass through. Accubonds are starting to scare me. I wouldn't count on them holding up on any hit over 3200 fps. I'd say you might have "mixed" reactions from 2900 to 3200 fps impact. And, under 2800 fps impact I think they'll be ok.
    I wish I was having the accuracy luck that so many report with the tsx's......I'd go with them hands down even though their bc's are grossly exagerated. But for me I will continue to work with accubonds ......but will not have them exiting any of my guns over 3200 fps.
     
  4. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Kraky,

    Did the bull die quickly?

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  5. kraky

    kraky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    Yup, it did....and that is always the "age old" argument. I started a thread over at Accurate Rel a couple weeks back because I had heard of some Accubond failures. I got back about 4 pages of posts. There were some real lovers of the accubond and then there were some (actually alot) of posts of failures. I was surprised. But then again they shoot so good that there seem to be a ton of people shooting them and that is perhaps why there are some negative stories out there. Eventually there are stories of bullet failure with every brand.
    I know alot of guys here at long range seem to be using the accubond because of it's high (and real bc). It seems to be opening up and performing at some pretty slow velocity.
    Maybe I need to get with it but it's almost like having a free lunch. If the bullet is so good it can open up at say 1500 fps and perform can it possibly hold together at say 34-3500 fps?
    Right now it's my opinion the only plastic tipped bullets out there that can perform at high speed would be the barnes mrx and the new winchester xp3.
    My opinions are not backed by any scientific proof.....just years of watching first hand info from field reports and taking note of bullet construction.
    I think the accubond is a great "long range" tool--far better than a swift a frame or northfork bonded (2 bullets I do have experience with). But I don't consider the accubond to be nearly as good of a high speed close range bullet as the other 2 and that's what I interpreted the post about 3700 fps to be considering.
     
  6. edge

    edge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,088
    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    [ QUOTE ]
    SNIP
    there were some (actually alot) of posts of failures. I was surprised.
    SNIP

    [/ QUOTE ]

    IMO, I only believe bullet failure stories on animals where I witnessed the impact or the animal was recovered, generally due to a second follow-up shot, and a good bullet path autopsy results.
    If the animal got away, then IMO, it was more likely hunter error and not that the bullet came apart, or did not open up, or a million other reasons that the animal was not recovered. Poor bullet placement results in most lost animals than almost every other reason combined.
    Heck, almost any bullet can take most game if the hunter does his part. That not only means putting the bullet where you want to, BUT more importantly where it SHOULD go! We know that a BT is going to come apart in high velocity impacts so if you hit big bone on the way in don't be surprised to see the animal limping away.....cuz that ain't bullet failure! That is plain and simple hunter error!

    edge.
     
  7. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    I think this is more a definition issue with what "bullet failure" actually means. To me personally, if a bullet has enough integrity to get both lungs and make a mess of things in the boiler room with a well placed shot, I do not see this as a failure at all.

    Then there are those that only feel a bullet is worth using if you can get an exit wound from any angle on an elk size target. That is fine but it GREATLY limits the bullet selection you will be using.

    I do not feel the original question was intended to use the 110 gr accubond on elk at point blank range. My response was that on "deer" size game he would not have a problem and I stand by that comment.

    For elk, the 257 caliber, even in the STW is very light. For elk with that caliber I would not recommend anything lighter then the 130 gr bonded Core bullets and better yet the real heavies such as the 156 gr ULD RBBT but you need a rifle built to use these super 25 cal bullets.

    Now certainly the barnes TSX bullets will penetrate well enough for elk in most 25 cal rounds but with the available other rounds out there why?

    Serious elk rifles using conventional bullets really start at 7mm cal. I say conventional because if you put a 195 gr ULD RBBT in a big 270 wildcat you will never have a problem with penetration, but again you need to build the rifle to shoot them.

    In my testing, the Accubonds will out perform the partitions at high velocity impacts nearly 100% of the time. The reason is because once the partition ruptures penetration is stopped cold. With the Accubond, it will turn into a mangled mess of copper and lead but it will still outpenetrate a partition at high velocity impacts in most cases.

    Will it penetrate with the Barnes TSX, no, will the TSX perform with the Accubond at ranges over 500 yards as far as expansion are concerned, no.

    So we are back to the original two positions, you want full penetration at long range with little tissue damage or do you want greater amounts of tissue damage and no exit wound.

    In my experience, the most tissue damage to the vitals will put the animal on the ground the quickest for less tracking.

    Just my opinion. What is bullet failure to some is not to others. Different strokes I suppose. As long as the bullet is accurate enough to put it in the vitals at any range you shoot and kills the critter quickly, this is just pretty much a debate for entertainment!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  8. kraky

    kraky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    KIRBY---- What can you tell me about your testing of the accubonds. (mentioned above). I'm really trying to believe in the accubond as a good big game (elk, carribou, possibly moose)bullet. I load for a few friends that are doing some hunts this fall and don't want to let them down.
    Because of the things I heard on the other chatroom (all of it first hand) I was nervous about them. Thats' why I loaded the 200 grain for my friends 300wby and some 160's for another friends 7 mag. My thinking is I'm increasing the performance margin by picking the heaviest accubond with the best sectional density and slowest starting speed because of picking heavy for caliber wt.

    If you can....tell us what you think of potential performance at higher velocity hits and long range lower velocity hits.

    I sure do like the accuracy....seems like they are always easy to get to shoot. I have lots of them sitting here....I just gotta get over my jitters a bit. (It's always a little more pressure picking a bullet for another friends hunt.....just in case something goes bad).
     
  9. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    My testing has been with mainly the 30 cal accubonds shot out of a 300 RUM. Loaded to 3380 fps with the 180 and 3150 fps with the 200 gr Accubonds. As well as their same weight partition siblings.

    My test was simply water filled milk jugs lined up in a wood box. I would line 8 jugs up, set up at 100 yards and fire a round into the jugs and repeat with all four bullets.

    At 100 yards the 200 gr Accubond penetrated the fifth jug. By that I mean the back side of the fifth jug had been hit by the expanded bullet splitting it open but not punching into the 6th jug.

    The 180 gr accubond made it though the 4th jug and split the forward surface of the 5th jug but did not penetrate into it.

    The 200 gr Partition penetration was identical to the 180 gr accubond.

    The 180 gr Partition stopped in the second jug. I thought this was a fluke so I tried it again and got the same results. The bullets had ruptured their partition and penetration stopped cold.

    At 300 yards, the partition did a little better but for same weight bullets, the Accubonds still penetrated on average a full jug deeper then the partition.

    Recovered bullet weights were also better for the Accubond at all ranges. Not by much but measurable. The partitions weakness is in its design which is ment to shed its entire front core on impact for masive energy transfer. This is fine for medium velocity rounds but when the bare partition can not withstand the remaining velocity and splits, the bullet stops nearly instantly.

    The Accubond may expand slightly faster initially but the bonded core basically allows the bullet to simply turn inside out on close range impacts and consistant mushrooming at long range is much more consistant then any other bullet I have tested.

    Personally, I feel the Accubond will make the Partition obsolete except for those die hard that simply will not believe that an Accubond could possible out perform the legendary partition.

    Again, this is LRH, not close range hunting so my focus is for longer range impact velocity with big game weight bullets. This does not mean a 110 gr Accubond is suitable for a 1000 lb animal. For elk size game a 160 gr 7mm accubond is what I consider minimum. For deer anything from the 110 gr Accubond and up will work very well.

    I used the 180 gr Ballistic Tip for years in the 300 RUM with great results and would never hesitate to hammer a big bull elk with that bullet through the ribs. Its just a matter of avoiding heavy bone. AN elk is a big critter so that is not all that hard to do.

    As far as testing the partition, I have witnesses the partition rupture on the following calibers:

    7mm Rem Mag
    140 gr Part @ 3350 fps

    7mm STW
    140 gr Partition @ 3450 fps

    7mm RUM
    140 gr Partition @ 3500 fps
    160 gr Partition @ 3200 fps

    300 RUM
    180 gr Partition @ 3375 fps

    Now these were all closer range impacts. Under 200 yards but for the large, high intensity rounds, I do not recommend the partition. I do however recommend the accubonds when you match the proper bullet weight to the game hunted.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  10. kraky

    kraky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    One more question and I'll quit pestering you....

    On the milk jug tests what kind of mushroom did the accubonds get? Was it tight to the shank or just kind of normal with say 1.5-2x diameter??

    Thanks for you input....I will load them breathing easier. I also know one of the avid posters on the chatrooms has done alot of big game hunting with the ballistic tip 180 and says it is way more bullet today because of a better jacket than it was about 5 years ago. Bonding could only improve on that.

    Thanks for your time and effort. Don Kraky
     
  11. jro45

    jro45 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    158
    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    I agree with Fiftydriver about bullet killing the animal but not exiting. It has releised all it energy that way in the animal.
     
  12. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    [ QUOTE ]
    On the milk jug tests what kind of mushroom did the accubonds get? Was it tight to the shank or just kind of normal with say 1.5-2x diameter??

    Thanks for you input....I will load them breathing easier. Don Kraky

    [/ QUOTE ]

    I have shot and recovered bullets from gallon milk jugs for years. Here are some recovered bullets to give you an idea of how they perform.

    160 gr AB 280 AI 3000 fps MV 100 yd recovery
    [image][​IMG][/image]

    225 gr AB 338 RUM 3050 fps
    [image][​IMG][/image]
    [image][​IMG][/image]

    You also may want to do a search for AB performance at www.noslerreloading.com
    There are many succes stories with AB's there.

    Also, the 30 cal 180 gr BT has been beefed up and is more robust. I would still go with an AB if it were available.

    JD338
     
  13. kraky

    kraky Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    301
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2001
    Great pics!!! OK I'm feeling fine about the accubonds again.
     
  14. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    JD338,

    My recovered bullets looked extremely similiar you yours. The 100 yard test bullets were a bit shorter in retained bullet shank then yours for my 180 gr Accubond tests but the 200 gr looked very similiar to your 338 bullets. From there out look nearly identical.

    Kirby Allen(50)