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[ 07-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
A mystery to me, hope some of you can help.
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Ian M
Well-Known Member
S1
With all due respect, I believe that you and Darryl type folk shoot at a level that many hunters do not realize exists. The factors that you have such strong understanding of are rocket-science to most hunters. This is not a flame, I am just mentioning that many shooters cannot or will not believe that such accuracy is not ******** luck. The math and science that you employ is the basis of much of this accuracy, along with your skills and top-end equipment.
I like to describe our really long shooting (1000 - 1500+) as HURLING (not to be confused with the popular Canadian passtime that occurs when too many beers are consumed in too short a timeframe). We call our "really long" shooting rock-*ucking, since we get so much enjoyment out of the rather rare times that we get hits past 1500.
No doubt the reason that we commonly have first shot misses (on rocks the size of Chevy vans) that are measured in football fields is because we do not have a clue about the science involved. That is compared to your tossing dirt on 1000 yard crows or Darryl's kills on the next moutain over. As I mentioned, no doubt your knowledge and confidence in handling these many factors is probably as important as your skill and equipment.
Anyhow, I and probably many other guys really enjoy the info that you are sharing, and the opportunity to "listen-in" on some very interesting stuff. That is one of the pure joys of this site.
Yaw of repose is right up there with how in hell a bullet's BC can change during flight. Beats the hell out of me...
With all due respect, I believe that you and Darryl type folk shoot at a level that many hunters do not realize exists. The factors that you have such strong understanding of are rocket-science to most hunters. This is not a flame, I am just mentioning that many shooters cannot or will not believe that such accuracy is not ******** luck. The math and science that you employ is the basis of much of this accuracy, along with your skills and top-end equipment.
I like to describe our really long shooting (1000 - 1500+) as HURLING (not to be confused with the popular Canadian passtime that occurs when too many beers are consumed in too short a timeframe). We call our "really long" shooting rock-*ucking, since we get so much enjoyment out of the rather rare times that we get hits past 1500.
No doubt the reason that we commonly have first shot misses (on rocks the size of Chevy vans) that are measured in football fields is because we do not have a clue about the science involved. That is compared to your tossing dirt on 1000 yard crows or Darryl's kills on the next moutain over. As I mentioned, no doubt your knowledge and confidence in handling these many factors is probably as important as your skill and equipment.
Anyhow, I and probably many other guys really enjoy the info that you are sharing, and the opportunity to "listen-in" on some very interesting stuff. That is one of the pure joys of this site.
Yaw of repose is right up there with how in hell a bullet's BC can change during flight. Beats the hell out of me...
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[ 07-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
TiroFijo
Active Member
S1, don't you ever have problems when you click a large correction (say, 40 MOA) on the scope? A slight canting (say 2º, not unusual on uneven terrain where vertical references are not available) of the crosshairs will show BIG (about 14.6") at 1000 yds.
Another question: is your 6 DOF program available for civilian users? Is the "library" of bullets pretty comprenhensive or you only have data for military bullets?
A palm sized program like this (...there is one for the 408 Chey Tac, with provision for several wind values downrange!) would be a long range shooter's dream.
Given an accurate system, and good measurement of all environmental variables, how far does your program allows for first shot hits on a 1.0 MOA target, anywhere in the world?
Another question: is your 6 DOF program available for civilian users? Is the "library" of bullets pretty comprenhensive or you only have data for military bullets?
A palm sized program like this (...there is one for the 408 Chey Tac, with provision for several wind values downrange!) would be a long range shooter's dream.
Given an accurate system, and good measurement of all environmental variables, how far does your program allows for first shot hits on a 1.0 MOA target, anywhere in the world?
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[ 07-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
TiroFijo
Active Member
S1, I've read all those topics, and I understand what you're saying, I'm a long time lurker here
...
Please allow me to rephrase my question:
How confident do you feel with the trajectory predictions of your 6 DOF program?
Given an extremely accurate system that can potentially group 5 shots into 1.0 MOA at 1500+m, and given a "perfect" shooter, perfect wind call, well determined geographical location and shot orientation, and perfect measurement of all the other environmental variables (air temp, baro pressure, humidity, round temp, altitude, etc.), how accurate would the program be in predicting where the bullet will hit downrange? Would you stil need a spotting shot to hit a 1.2 MOA target at 1500m or would you be "there" with the first shot?
Please allow me to rephrase my question:
How confident do you feel with the trajectory predictions of your 6 DOF program?
Given an extremely accurate system that can potentially group 5 shots into 1.0 MOA at 1500+m, and given a "perfect" shooter, perfect wind call, well determined geographical location and shot orientation, and perfect measurement of all the other environmental variables (air temp, baro pressure, humidity, round temp, altitude, etc.), how accurate would the program be in predicting where the bullet will hit downrange? Would you stil need a spotting shot to hit a 1.2 MOA target at 1500m or would you be "there" with the first shot?
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[ 07-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
Blaine Fields
Well-Known Member
Yep, I just discovered this problem a couple of weeks ago. When I got the scope and rifle square using a level attached to the scope base and a plumb line about 40 yds. out, I then ran the elevation up to 40 MOA and was surprised to see the reticle move away from the plumb line, ending up maybe 1 or 2 MOA away. So I just rotated my scope slightly so that the the reticle tracked the verticle line even though the verticle compenent of the reticle was not exactly plumb. I tested the setup this weekend and at both 100 and 1000, it is right on.
My guess is that this is your problem.
When I was fixing my problem, I thought to myself that I could set up the scope so that it would null the spin drift by moving the reticle slightly left at range. When I calculated the spin drift for 1000 yds. I got 5" and broke out laughing - like I could hold 5" at this range! So I just forgot the fancy stuff and just tried to get the reticle moving verticle.
My guess is that this is your problem.
When I was fixing my problem, I thought to myself that I could set up the scope so that it would null the spin drift by moving the reticle slightly left at range. When I calculated the spin drift for 1000 yds. I got 5" and broke out laughing - like I could hold 5" at this range! So I just forgot the fancy stuff and just tried to get the reticle moving verticle.
TiroFijo
Active Member
S1, that is simply amazing
...
So the challenge is to get a good wind call and imput accurately all the other variables in a fairly short time...
Is the larger horizontal spread only due to the difficulty of accurately predicting wind downrange?
May I ask what rifles/mounts/scopes/calibers are you using for these distances?
Regarding the 6 DOF program, do you have to imput specific data for each individual weapon (like BC, yaw of repose, etc.), or all similar ones behave pretty much the same (...assuming the same shooter, do all 338LM SWS of the same model have pretty much the same come ups, wind corrections and spin drift, or are there differences among them?).
Thanks in advance, and please excuse for asking so many questions, these tech tidbits are not available elsewhere.
So the challenge is to get a good wind call and imput accurately all the other variables in a fairly short time...
Is the larger horizontal spread only due to the difficulty of accurately predicting wind downrange?
May I ask what rifles/mounts/scopes/calibers are you using for these distances?
Regarding the 6 DOF program, do you have to imput specific data for each individual weapon (like BC, yaw of repose, etc.), or all similar ones behave pretty much the same (...assuming the same shooter, do all 338LM SWS of the same model have pretty much the same come ups, wind corrections and spin drift, or are there differences among them?).
Thanks in advance, and please excuse for asking so many questions, these tech tidbits are not available elsewhere.
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[ 07-12-2003: Message edited by: S1 ]
