a good Long Range non barrel burn caliber

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by scottyd2506, Nov 5, 2013.

  1. scottyd2506

    scottyd2506 Well-Known Member

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    As the title says, I would like some advice on a long range 1000 yard cartridge that does not burn out the barrel.

    I have 3 bolt guns.a win 70 300 win mag I bought in 1986 that has a THIN bbl, and shoot 150's at 1 moa and the 168-185 burger at 7-8 moa (not .7 or ,8) or 8 inches at 100.

    I've been toying around at 600-800 yards going for 1000. Hit a 8 inch steel plate at 800 with my M77 25-06 and 115 going 3200 fps. Problem is it's not consistent like it was, it's a 20 year old gun and has a good 1500 rounds through it. it used to consistently shoot 1/2 moa or better. but I get flyers more often than not now a days.

    My Sav 204 is fairly new and plenty accurate. shoots 1/2 moa all the time, and lots of 1/4 moa and less if I do my part.. but the wind past 500 kills those little 39 grain bullets. so it's out

    So I'm left with
    My Armilite Ar-10 shoots mostly 1.5 moa except the 175 SMK's that print 1/2 and 3/4 moa. It has a hvy 24 in bbl and 308's barrels do last forever.
    It is fun to shoot, but hard on brass and not as pin point as the new bolt guns

    Thinking of a re-barrel or another action.

    a long range bolt gun that can reach out, buck the wind and is not hard on the throat of the bbl.

    close to ..67-.70 bc and 2800 fps and last past 2000-2500 rnds and be accurate


    the 6.5-284 is good, but hear it burns out after 800-1000 rounds. (No wonder my 25-06 barrel is going south) the 7 mags also I hear are hard on barrels.

    The 260 Rem I hear plenty good things about. launching low .6 bc bullets at 2800 fps. the 6.5x55 Sweede another.

    I'm looking at the high .6 bc bullets, 6.5 Matrix 160 (.680-700 bc), .277 Matrix 175 at .680 Bc, .284 Berger 180 Hybrid at .674 BC. and 30 cal Berger OTM
    215 (695 bc and 230 at .743 bc

    I'm not sure the 260 rem can launch the 160's past 2500-2600 fps, the Sweede might fair better. The strait 284 shooting the 180s at 2800 fps, the 270 wsm I'm not sure how hard it is on barrels, the 270 would be nice but magazine length with the VLD's might be a prob.

    a 277x284 might be a good choice.
    Then we have the 30 cals. a 300 win mag could get the 215's at 2900 fps and 230's at 2700 fps from 27-28 in tubes

    I have come down to these

    284 win

    (can have in long action and seat bullets out far. shoot .674 bc 180's at 2800 fps)

    260 rem .680 bc 160 at 2550-2650 fps prob last 3500 rounds
    even the .618 bc 140 VLD at 2800 fps is hands down much better than a 308 shooting .496 bc 175's at 2600 fps I'm shooting with now.


    6.5x55 Sweed (or improved), 160's at 2600-2700 fps

    270 wsm with 175 Matrix at 2900 fps (not sure how long throat will last)

    300 win mag 215 at 2900 or 230 at 2700 fps and .696 and .743 bc (with a brake)

    any ideas to calibers you all would chose?

    thanks
     
  2. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    7mm-08, 6.5/ 6 Creedmoor, 6.5x47 Lapua, 6 Dasher, 270 Winchester
    I will add though, to maintain good barrel life, you will have to sacrifice speed vs barrel life. Slow and steady wins the race in long range sometimes.
     

  3. ZSteinle

    ZSteinle Well-Known Member

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    6.5x47 lapua or 7mm saum
     
  4. BrentM

    BrentM Well-Known Member

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    Saw a vid where the instructor was discussing cleaning of the LR rifle. He had 11000 rounds in is 300WM.

    If it took you 20 years to shoot 1500 rounds I wonder if it matters that much. If you are planning to shoot a lot more then I can see this being an issue.

    On another note, flyers and groups etc are not always a indicator of a bad throat. In my experience, even just recently, I had to change to reloading SOP to address an accuracy issue. Just a thought, not sure what all you have done to look into it.
     
  5. Creedmoor shooter

    Creedmoor shooter Well-Known Member

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    6.5 Creedmoor gets my vote. Love the cartidge. 7mm/08 wouldn't be a bad choice either but you don't have as much B.C. as the 6.5mm.
     
  6. scottyd2506

    scottyd2506 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Brent
    It probably took me 20 years to shoot 1500-1600 rnds through my 25-06. I've tried many things, it shoots many 1/2 inch groups, but poi changes as I shoot, depending on bullet, the 90's shoot 1st to 10 shots in the same area, then slowly shift to maybe 1 inch lower at 200 yards , the 115's need a fouler shot, then the 2nd to 10 or so shots are fine.

    as it get dirty or fouled groups shifts more as it get dirty.. by 20 round it stop shifting but accuracy is crap, 1 moa at 100 yards, 7 inches at 400 yards etc and 12-14 inches at 600 yards.. clean it good and I'm 2.00 inches at 400 yards . I notice more and more flyers as it gets older..


    I've been playing with it to shoot out at 600 or 1000 yards. and practicing and developing loads etc take many rounds.. I've put through maybe 400 rounds in the last few months
    It is my main coyote rig, and once I re-barrel it, I'm not going to burn it out pinking steel at 800-100 yards. anymore my personal limit for a shot on a coyote would be 600 yards.

    I'm not sure about the 10,000 round 300 WM, with enough cleaning I'm sure it shoots ok, 3 moa?? but throat erosion is from the inside chamber escaping in barrel, no cleaning can stop this.

    I've heard many people cleaim they shoot out their 6.5x284's in 800 rounds.
    Meaning, yes they will still shoot, but not with consistent accuracy (10 shots into 3/4 moa at 1000 yards etc) anymore. The 25-06 is even more overbore than the 6.5-284, as the 06 case holds slightly more powder, and .25 is smaller than .26.
    I plan to shoot 400-500 rounds a year, so 800 rounds is only 2 years for the great 6.5x284.
    I'm not sure how long most 300 Wm's barrels last, it is not that terribly overbore. the worst would be a 257 STW.

    I hear 284's last on average 2500 rounds or more, can get 2800-3000 fps from a 180.

    thanks
     
  7. BrentM

    BrentM Well-Known Member

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    Mil spec for the m40 used to be 10000 rounds for 1moa or less. This instructor was well under that. I believe it took 45 rounds after complete copper removal to get back to .5moa.

    I have the 6.5-284 with about 800 rounds down the tube on a stock savage SS fluted varmint barrel. I have been playing with a bore scope and talked to a trusted smith today about errosion. I will take it to him to look at as well but we discussed what I saw in the bore scope and he thinks it is fine. I do too actually. It still shoots well enough. I have no clue how long it will last though. This is my first one and I have had for about 9 months. I am going out Friday to shoot LR with a friend and see how it does. Been shooting .5MOA out to 1300 if I do my part.


    I do think peace of mind is nice to have and the 7mm/.284 seems to give that good blend of performance and durability. Probably the right way to go.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2013
  8. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    6.5 Sherman, .280 Ackley Improved, .257 Wby is a great one that is supposed to get fairly good barrel life for what it is.

    .308 Win gets incredible barrel life...300 WinMag gets decent. 7mm RemMag is not too bad for a magnum.
     
  9. stomp442

    stomp442 Well-Known Member

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    I think the 6.5-284 used as a normal hunting rifle will last a very long time. These people you hear about burning out barrels after 800 rounds are probably match shooters that put much more stress on a barrel than any hunter will. I have a 6.5-284 that probably has at least 1500 rounds down the tube that still holds half moa or better at 600 yards with no signs of slowing down. I take it hunting and I kill targets all the time with it. It gets cleaned religiously every 200 rounds and never fires more than five shots strings. My point to all this is there is lots of variables that come into play when it comes to barrel ware. Take care of it and it should take care of you.
     
  10. BrentM

    BrentM Well-Known Member

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    This is the sort of info that makes a place like this worth reading regularly. Real life experience. I have thought and read similar things about the barrel issue. I get all worked up over it and thought mine was going south. It was just poor reloading SOP on my part. Fixed that, learned from it, moving on.

    I thought for sure I would see something on the scope, set back lands, waves, pitting, anything.....yet, nothing showed up. I have compared it to brand new rifles and a couple that are broke in but far from shot out. The groves look just like the other rifles.
     
  11. AZShooter

    AZShooter Well-Known Member

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    Hi Scottyd,

    I understand. I had my share of barrel burners 257 weatherby, 6mm-284, 7 RUM etc. It is frustrating and time consuming to deal with the hyper rounds sometimes. Sure they offer some awesome performance but at a cost.

    When Sierra made a 350 gr 375 cal bullet for the Chey-tac folks that high .805 BC and had me thinking of the possibilities. What if I put that in my 375 Taylor? The 375 Taylor is a 338 win mag necked up to .375. I crunched some numbers and that heavy high BC bullet even going 2300-2400 fps became very interesting. Unfortunately the 350 gr bullet required a faster twist. I put the concept on the back burner.

    I kept thinking about this concept. I built a 338 RCM and owned the reamer. I had a worn out 7mm rem mag barrel a 30" Lilja SS 7mm #7 profile which I sent to Dan Pederson to have him bore it and re-rifle it to .338 with a 1 in 9 twist. I gave him my 338 RCM reamer and a dummy round using the 300 gr sierra matchking for long throating. The end result is a short action round that fits and feeds from a long action with enough room to kiss the rifling. When Berger came out with their 300 gr OTM I switched and got even more performance with the higher BC.

    The velocity might be considered slow at 2550 fps. It is accurate as heck, bucks the wind and with only 57 grains of RL-17 it can be fired 8-10 times and it only gets warm. The 13 pound rifle's recoil is easy to handle. Cleanup is a breeze. I have fired hundreds of rounds through it and it still looks very good through a bore scope. It IS strange but it fits your description.

    I used it on a coues whitetail hunt last year and had a 400 yd chip shot. It worked just fine and didn't damage meat like my other barrel burning hyper rounds.

    I would think similar cartridge combinations like the 284 win and the 180 berger hybrid or maybe a 300 RCM with the 230 Berger could also fit the bill for long range performance and longer barrel life.

    Here is a picture of the long throated 338 RCM:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. roninflag

    roninflag Well-Known Member

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    SCOTTY-i can't tell where you are/ if this just targets/metal plate or elk/deer too. if just target s very heavy barrel rifle is what i reccomend with a very good barrel . there are a lot of calibers. if you give up velocity ( for barrel life) you will get more wind drift and long rang becomes much more difficult. that is why i shoot a 7 mag and 6.5-284.
     
  13. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Hey AZ, what does this cost to have done? Is it worth it to just buy a new blank and start over? I was told it was about as expensive as buying a new blank and starting over...
     
  14. scottyd2506

    scottyd2506 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry if I offended you about the 6.5x284 and 7mm mags, I absolutely love hard hitting flat shooting guns like the 6.5x284, heck the 6.5 Sherman, 264 win and 6.5 WSM mag seems perfect for that caliber the 7mm STW or allen mag.
    All my bolt guns are fast hard hitting, 300 win mag, 25-06 and 204 (it's fast and flat shooting anyways)

    For hunting the 6.5-284 or 6.5 Sherman or 6.5-06 would be great, a little flatter and faster than a 6.5-55 or 260 rem, but then again the later will kill deer and elk also out to 1000 yards. the 7 mag is hard to beat, a 180 Berger at 3000 fps.. not much is better.

    I want something that is mainly target, but I can hunt with sometimes.
    Even a 308 will work, it has the power of a 357 Magnum at muzzle at 1000 yards. But something that bucks the wind better might be easier to hit with, the wind can be tricky, so something that has 48 inches of drift vs 26 inches can help.
    It is not hard to put 400-500 rounds down the barrel through a years time. and in 3 years the accuracy goes from consistent 1/2 moa to sometimes 1/2 moa and poi change.. Then plunk down $400--$600 for a barrel, wait many months for a smith to ream it, and put in on the action for another
    $200-$300. Some of the gunsmiths around here have a year wait till they can get to your gun.

    This is the reason I want to leave my fast flat shooting guns to hunting, and get a dedicate target (and sometimes hunting) rifle, that weighs around 10-12 lbs and lasts for 5-8 years or more.

    I've thought about a 284 with 30 inch bbl in 8.5 twist, I've heard of people getting 3000 fps from 284 and 180 Berger's using Re-17 and 30-32 inch bbl.
    It's on the edge, but 2800 fps should be easy from a 28 inch, just 200 fps slower than a 7rm and lasts 3 times longer.
    a good compromise of long range and a non barrel burner.

    I've been thinking of re barreling my 300 wm tro 7 rm. but now since Berger has the 215 OTM and 230 OTM's, the 30's are alive again the 215 has a (696 bc) almost .7bc and the 230 OTM is .743 bc. but Berger has a 195 7mm in the works. So the7mm is hard to beat