A bunch of simple questions.

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by 4ked Horn, Dec 28, 2003.

  1. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Hi everyone. I have a few questions that I'm certain almost anyone who is a regular can answer.

    What are a few of the more popular calibers for elk out to about 1500 yds?( I am mostly interested in .338 up to the low .40s but please dont feel limited to just these.)

    Which of the above rounds can you buy ready made brass for or which ones are easily formed ( like by simply running into a full length sizing die and trimming)?

    The IOR scopes, What does IOR stand for?

    How is it that I have been submerged in shooting and the gun hobbies for years and never heard of them untill I started checking back to this forum afrer a long pause.(This is a bonus point question if you can answer it for me.)

    Anyone have a picture of a .308 Baer next to a common cartridge.

    Does anyone sell laminated stock blanks so I could make my own stocks.

    I was messing with a ballistics calculator from another recent post and it asks me to choose a drag function (G1, G2 and so on)to calculate maximum range. Well what is the correct drag function for Nosler 30 cal 168gr J4 bullets.

    Thanks.
     
  2. baldeagle713

    baldeagle713 Well-Known Member

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  3. chris matthews

    chris matthews Well-Known Member

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    Caliber choices would be the 338 RUM or the 338 Lapua. Or an Ackley version of the two...
    Or 300 RUM and it's variations.
    Can't say anything bad about IOR, but can't say anything good either, prefer Leu or NF.
     
  4. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    The 338 is the best way to go, as wind will be the biggest consideration at that range. Look at the BC's on the available bullets and what speeds you can expact to compare the choices.

    The 338/378 Weatherby cartridge is the simplest, all out performer there is. If you buy custom dies, the 338 Lapua Improved is right there too, and with better, longer lasting brass. Standard 338 Lapua = next best performance. The 338 Ultra is a close fourth, with even cheaper brass yet, not the quality of the Lapua, or life span, but initially cheaper. You're smith may not be willing to open up the bolt face on a M70 or 700 for the big Weatherby or Lapua case, so unless you buy a custom action or have GA Precision or another smith make the modifications and chamber for it for one, the Ultra may be what you're left with.

    All brass is available.

    Custom dies run about $275-350

    Custom Reamer $135

    Ackley Improved versions should fire form from factory brass.

    G5 should correctly model the 168 J4, just compare that the the drops you verify at the range to know for sure, G7 or G1 for what ever reason "may" model is better. Bullets advertised G1 BC must have the BC converted for the true BC of each drag model. Many ballistic programs have a converter, if yours don't, email me and I'll convert it for you.
     
  5. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    in anyway you need a custom reamer long range performance doesn t came from SAAMI hunting specs or CIP specs

    if you plan to go in 338/378 Wea you need a tight chamber and shorter throat matched to 300 SMK and not design for safari hunt ...

    300 RUM and 300 RUM wilcat can allow you to use a regular bolt face mag receiver and doesn t need big costly receiver .

    IOR are very good scope

    good shooting

    DAN TEC
     
  6. sakofan

    sakofan Well-Known Member

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  7. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    contact Bruce Baer at (717)349-7077 for stock blanks and already turned and inletted.

    BH
     
  8. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Baldeagle. Thanks. While looking at the links you sent me I noticed another stock maker mentioned. When I did a google search I saw that same maker rear the top of the list and they sell 1/16 inch laminated blanks. Not bad, only about $100 and they can do as much or as little inletting and forming as I would want.
     
  9. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Brent, Thanks for all the info.

    I imagine the weatherby brass can be bought ready to load. I have heard that the weatherby design was not terribly accurate because the headspace wass off the belt instead of the shoulders and the round shoulders did not have the dame alligning function as a cone type shoulder. Is that why The weatherby chambers should be cut on the tight side?

    What goes into forming the 338 Lapua imp case?

    Thanks for the drag function info. I unfortunately wont be able to compare the data to actual results. The program I was using calculates ultimate terminal distance (around 6000 yards for a .308 win) and maximim height if shot straight up.

    This is more of a folly than a nesessity but it got me curious about the drag functions. Do you know of a website that outlines the different drag functions and how they were derived (in laymans terms)?
     
  10. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    4ked Horn

    Would recommend that you stick with a non wildcat for a while until you gain experience from the sound of things. Think you will find it much easier to make the gun shoot well and more satisifying for you.

    The 300 wthby is an extremely accurate cartridge IF done in the right chamber, ie minimum SAAMI and not standard freebore. Dave Kiff and Pacific Precision can help with a reamer for you ($160) Standard BR quality dies are available. It has excellant downrange energy, great accuracy and if you decide to make a jump up in power later, easy to rechamber to 300 Ackley or 308 Baer.

    If recoil is no problem, then just go with straight 338 Lapua.

    Key question is what weight are you planning on the gun being? Carry gun (under 12-13 lbs), would stay with the 300 Weatherby.

    Good luck

    BH
     
  11. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Bounty Hunter. Thanks for both responses. Really I am in the very early brainstorming stages of a complete custom long range rifle and that is where the first question comes from.

    I am familiar with the smaller calibers (.30 and down) that are used by most hardcore varmint hunters but not as familiar with the long distance big game favorites.

    I am a bit funny about my guns in regards to making them very user friendly. This includes using common calibers like .223, .243win, .308 win. and so on. I even use the same powder for all my (currently owned) rifles. so I am trying to branch out with this next project and go with a "semi" wildcat. I'm thinking something that I can form with dies and avoid fire forming.

    In regard to weight we have a 14 lb limit here in Idaho and smaller than .50 cal for centerfire. If I build a big game gun it will serve the purpose of letting me sit on a hilltop all day and glassing for the game. You see I am 35 years old but due to a car wreck a dozen years ago my legs are a wreck and stalking all day just wont work. But if I can dump an elk or deer on the next hillside then I can take a 4-wheeler or truck out to it or go wrangle up a buddy to give me a hand.

    All that being said, It can weigh every bit of 14 lbs but no more. I would like it lighter even if it means a serious muzzle brake because ear cups would be no issue at all.

    I'm certain this project wont see any money for awhile though. I have a 4-wheeler to buy first.

    As for the other questions They were just a few that I had gathered while cruising around these forums.

    Again thanks for your thoughtful input. I'm always willing to learn. [​IMG]
     
  12. 4ked Horn

    4ked Horn Writers Guild

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    Sakofan. Thanks for the link. Thats exactly the answer that my IOR question was looking for. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  13. baldeagle713

    baldeagle713 Well-Known Member

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    4ked Horn:
    Check this out this is where I got hooked on Long range Comp. www.pa1000yard.com/
     
  14. Brent

    Brent Well-Known Member

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    Brass price is a consideration here.

    The 338/378 WBY brass is most expensive at $2.00 each.

    The 338 Lapua Brass is next, at $1.30 each.

    The 338 Ultra is even less, at $0.50 each.

    The 338 Lapua brass is the strongest and will last much longer than either with proper annealing. It's consistancy is better, and especially if you don't neck turn this will be an even more important consideration.


    Forming brass in the die before shooting it would only need to be done if you are lengthening the neck by pushing the shoulder back.

    If you are blowing the case out to take out excess body taper and/or form a sharper shoulder, no problem, just seat the bullet hard into the lands to create the zero headspace condition and fire form them.

    Depending on the Improved version of the Lapua, and there's a few designs too, your forming may be different, as well as with using other parent cases too.

    The case will still center very well with the double radius shoulder Weatherby uses. If the die is set up properly, the forward edge of the belt never contacts the chamber, and it headspaces off the shoulder just as any non-belted case does.

    At 14 lbs, I'd go for the brake too.

    Try this for an online ballistics program.
    http://www.eskimo.com/~jbm/