9 inches low on first shot!

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by 8andbait, Feb 7, 2012.

  1. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    Alright, was at the range yesterday got dialed in at 200 yards with this gun, Rem 700 7mm rem mag, 26" barrel, B&C stock.
    Yesterday I was getting 1/2" groups at 100 yards and about 1.25" groups at 200 yards. Very happy with that shooting 160 gr accubond handloads (not my handloads) from a proven loader that sells commercially.

    So I got home yesterday cleaned the bore, oiled it up put it back in the safe. This morning I didn't have to work so I thought I would go back to the range and check 300 yards to see how tight I could get it. Started out at 200 yards first shot was 9 inches low and perfect left to right. I had to walk up to the target because I couldn't see the hole. Got up there and took a little bit to find because I never thought it would be this low. So alright, seems strange but I did forget to take the oil out of the bore so maybe that is it. Second shot 1/2 inch low and perfect left to right. Nice...this is going to be good. Third shot 3 inches low and 2 inches right...maybe it just needed a few to foul it up. fourth, fifth and sixth shots are in about 2 inches around the center but about 1" left. So close to where I left it yesterday.

    One thing I did notice is the recoill was barely noticeable at first and seemed to build the more I shot. Not sure if this is normal.

    So I moved to 300 yards dialed up 2.25 moa and first shot hit 1/2 inch below center perfect left to right. Next shot was 2 inches low perfect left to right, then it started to go right the next 6 shots were between 2-4 inches right and 2-4 inches low. I only shot a total of 16 shots so I don't think it was too dirty or fouled but not sure what is going on. Scope and mounts are tight I felt I was getting off good shots, no flinch or pulls or anything like that wind was light and variable. Not sure what is going on the first 3 shots of the day were all over, the next 5 shots were good at 200 and 300 combined then right and low.

    Any Ideas, could it be the loads? How can I get 1/2" at 100 and 4" at 300 and center of group is about 3-4" off? I am not a professional shooter but feel I can keep it in a couple inches at 300 yards. Am I expecting too much?

    I really want to start shooting long range and thought this was going to be the gun since it was a proven 1/2" shooter at 100.

    Glad to here any opinions or similiar experiences.

    Thanks, gary
     
  2. kcebcj

    kcebcj Well-Known Member

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    The first thing I would do is go buy a box or two of factory loads and see what the rifle does with them. I simply refuse to shoot other peoples reloads....just kuze! The fact that the recoil got your attention kinda throws up a flag.

    Run a clean patch through before shooting to get the oil out then give it two or three shots to foul the barrel before shooting for accuracy.
     

  3. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    I actually shot these hand loads, hornady custom in 154 gr and hornady superformance in 162 grain yesterday. These handloads were the most accurate followed closely by the 154 hornady and a DISTANT third was the superformance (these were not good at all).

    I was ready for a couple foulers but 9" off at 200 seemed like alot and then losing accuracy after about 12 shots didn't seem right either.

    The recoil was very noticable, at first I thought wow it hardly kicks at all and by the last couple shots the muzzle was jumping again.

    I am confused, really want to get into this long range shooting and hunting but would not feel comfy shooting at an animal past 250 yards the way it is going now. I got the 7 mag for a good compromise between mild recoil and long range energy. If I am not able to get accuracy past 300 yards I might as well be shooting a 270 or 308.

    In theory a 1/2" gun at 100 yards should shoot 1 1/2 at 500 yards, I can give shooter error maybe 1/2-3/4 inch at 300 yards but I should still be under 2 inches for grouping, correct?
     
  4. fetch

    fetch Well-Known Member

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    I think you need to go read a little bit about 308 before making any uneducated remarks like that.

    Have you checked the scope, base, stock etc? is everything tight? just remember KISS.
     
  5. texan79

    texan79 Well-Known Member

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    Is this a heavy barreled gun? Any mods done? Whats the trigger pull? Is the rifle bedded in the stock? Barrel completely floated? Are the bases and rings torqued corectly/ tight? Whats the torque on the action screws? A lot of variables to diagnose with this one. As far as a 1/2" gun at 100, the MOA theory suggests about 2.5" at 500 can be expected. As far as the shots being low, Aaron Davidson wrote an article on verticle stringing from factory barrels. Not sure this is the case in your rifle, but you may want to read it and see if it applies.
     
  6. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    I know how accurate those two rounds are. In this rifle I was looking for accuracy and energy at long ranges I have owned 308's and 270's and liked them.

    No disrespect to the 308 or 270, my point was I was looking for more downrange power and I could easily shoot game at 300 yards with alot less power, sorry it didn't come out that way.

    Yes checked everything.

    thanks, gary
     
  7. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    #4 contour
    fluted
    3# trigger
    not bedded other than the aluminum block in the B&C
    completely floated
    bases torqued to 30 in lbs, rings torqued to 20 in lbs
    action torqued to 60 in lbs

    is it possible the ammo is sub MOA at 100 but not at 300? don't know how that could happen but maybe.

    thanks, gary
     
  8. texan79

    texan79 Well-Known Member

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    I run 5lbs less torque across the board, but I cant see that being a huge problem. Try bedding it with devcon and back down to 50 lbs on your action screws. Did I read you were shooting a Nightforce scope? Cant say the scope is to blame if so, but it is a possibility. Is this a Sendero barrel? Fact barrels can be your bigest challenge if so. Kevin Cram on this site offers an accuracy package if you want to try that route.
     
  9. Derek M.

    Derek M. Well-Known Member

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    That was an enormous mistake. You could have bulged your barrel. NEVER EVER fire a bullet down a lubed bore.
     
  10. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    I have a leupold 4.5-14X40 LR,

    I will back off the screws and see if that helps.

    thanks, gary
     
  11. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    I do usually run a couple dry patches before going to the range. After cleaning yesterday I ran a patch through it with a little oil on it then a loose dry patch to get any excess out.
    It kind of seemed like the bullet didn't make any velocity due to the barrel being slightly lubed, was thinking that was the reason for the lack of recoil and being 9" low.

    thanks, gary
     
  12. Scot E

    Scot E Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't start messing with screw torque and other intangibles yet. First deal with the known things that changed since your last shooting session. Specifically I would start with the lubed barrel and the hand loads. Both those things sound suspicious.

    I would clean the barrel well and start over with a good quality factory load or a load that you are positive shoots consistently well in that gun. If your barrel typically needs a few fouling shots to find its accuracy then do that and then start measuring groups.

    If there is anything else you changed since the last shooting session I would deal with those things first as well before going on to any of the other fixes.

    Scope, mounts, and rings would be my next move.

    HTH,

    Scot E.
     
  13. 8andbait

    8andbait Well-Known Member

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    thanks scott, nothing has really changed since the last time except I moved out to 300 yards. I clean everytime I get back from the range and this time I wasn't planning on going to the range today but when work got called off figured I would go shoot. Got to the range which is 50 miles away and didnt patch out the barrel. I didn't think it would be a bid deal since there was just a very light film in the bore.
    I am positive everything is tight and loctite blue was applied. I guess I will get some more of the Hornady customs since they shot as good at 100 yards as the handloads.

    Has anyone had any ammo that shot good at 100 and bad at 300?
    I realize variables change as the shot gets longer but I dont feel 300 yards is that far and I should be able to get at least 2" groups out of a rifle I can shoot at 1/2" at 100.

    thanks guys, gary
     
  14. Dr. Vette

    Dr. Vette Well-Known Member

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    To comment first on something you said previous page, the 308 or 270 are no more - or less - accurate than the caliber you're shooting now.

    Also,
    is not correct. 1/2 inch at 100 is 2 1/2 inches at 500.

    Having said that...

    Yes, you can have ammo shoot an inch at 100 and then do whatever it likes at 200 or 300. 18 mos ago we were preparing my uncle's 30-06 for an antelope hunt he and my Dad took to Wyoming. We tried several different brands/types of factory ammo at 100 yards, and narrowed it down to the best 4 at 100 yards. Each shot just over an inch or so at that distance, and there was no clear cut winner on that day.

    A few weeks later we went to the 200 yard range. At this distance these same 4 boxes now shot anywhere from just under an inch (!) to 6 inches at 200 yards. And, it was repeatable on a different day. Needless to say he used the one that grouped under an inch at 200, and the rest are in my basement cupboard. I have no idea how 4 that were so similar at 100 could be so different at 200, but I've seen it with my own eyes.

    Also, I'd recommend bedding the action to that stock before you go too much further.