7mm RUM vs other mags

[RockyMtnMT]

Rockymt, Sorry to have offended you. This forum is kinda like watching the 6 o'clock news. All you ever hear is a short soundbite edited exactly the way they want you to believe it. I just can't write an essay every time I get on here. In long range hunting for elk I have found the 338 to be the most effective weapon. Most of the 7mm ultramags I did came back for rebarreling because of short barrel life or after the elk hunt they realized a larger, heavier bullet would be better. I still have two and five 7mm stw's. The 7mm's are great calibers and mine shoot very well. There are better choices for long range elk though in my opinion.

I have shot quite a few record class elk with a bow, more than ten booners. Also some with a pistol and many with a rifle. Also through guiding and being in a ton of hunting camps for 40 years have seen hundreds shot with every caliber. My wish is not to offend anyone but to help guys through my vast experience so that hopefully they don't have to spend a fortune like I did to figure out what is best. They can draw from all that experience and do it right the first time. Whole lot cheaper that way. I don't care if nobody listens or cares what I say. All I can do is put it out there and let them decide.

JE wrote about exactly what a 7mm ultra will do and if that is what a guy wants have fun with it. I just said my experience with it. They can get one knowing they may have shortenned barrel life but the ballistics are great. Good luck with your hunting this fall.

Was not offended. Can't get the proper "emotion" in the typing. You are right, there is always a point down range that the larger caliber will out perform in how hard it hits. So why don't we all carry .50's? I think it all comes down to making the proper bullet choice for the caliber you are shooting. Then, horse power never hurts.

Steve

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

The reason we don't all shoot 50 cals is because everything I discuss on here are hunting weight rifles. I have found a rifle scoped out with bipod under 11 pounds is a hunting weight rifle that most guys in good shape can carry and hunt with. Within that criteria the 338 caliber is the best available long range elk rifle that I have found.

Elk are very large tough animals that can carry a lot of lead. All shots are not perfect right through the boiler room even though a guy sitting at his computer reading ballistic charts would like to think otherwise. Here is the difference between a heavy, large caliber bullet and a small caliber bullet no matter what the bullet construction. If you hit an elk anywhere in the torso with a 338 or larger caliber heavy bullet at any range you will probably still get your elk. With a smaller caliber rifle you probably will not get your elk. A gut shot elk hit with a 300 grain 338 is one sick sob and will just hunch up and probably not go 50 yards before lying down untill he dies or you sneak close and finish him off. With a smaller caliber he will go several miles untill he dies. The guy who wants to always bring home his elk, understanding he is not perfect every shot will put all the odds in his favor. There is a reason for minimum calibers in Africa for the big stuff. They kill better.

 

[Iron Worker]

Had a 300 RUM it took 3 shots of 200 gr Accubonds into the boiler room of a Ca Black Bear to kill him. They were doing 3200 FPS . Guide told me to try and shoot it in the head behind the ear it'll turn it off like a switch. Point is its shot placement. Now I shoot a 270 WSM with 140gr Bergers at 3250 that's good enough for my hunting. Black Bear, Deer, Pig , Lion ,Coyotes.

 

[270 lefty]

Michael,

Wooo hoooo you're raining on my parade............ But I'm one of those power driven folks.

I shoot a 270 Allen Mag but wish I would have went with a 7mm due to the lack of 270 heavy bullets. I've shot her an extra bunch just just because. I fully expect to get a few shots over 1000 rounds through it. A 7mm smoker should exceed that amount of total shots just because it would be in someone else's hands. Once I get things settled out the rifle won't see 10 shots a year thus its life will be long.

I am treating berger bullets very harshly. The 150s won't shoot at any "reasonable" velocity in my fast twist 3 groove 30" bbl. The less the jump the smaller the group but min size is 1.5 MOA.

I'm working on a process to reduce 7mm Bergers to 277. When this is done to the 168s group size is right around 1 foot @ 50 yds. Really!. All holes are out of round to some extent. More than 90% of the holes are nearly horse shoe shaped. This is at velocities less than 3000 fps.

I suppose the same results would be achieved with the 180gr normal jacketed bullets.

The 180gr thick jacket match bullet shows good promise.

Highdrum, I'd recommend something like a 338 RUM, EDGE, or some such. Push the 300 SMK to whatever velocity you wish. Learn its drop and you're good for long range on larger animals. My carry rifle is a 338 RUM sporter weight with its range being limited only by the scope on it. To 900 yds its deadly and really fun to shoot.

But I wouldn't run away from one of the big 7s but I'm bettin you'll be short on bullet selection. One of the noted smiths here has gone the berger route and has ended up shooting 160 NABs in his. He mentioned, if I recall correctly, that he didn't notice much if any difference in jacket thickness between the regulars and the thicks.

When the Wildcat bullets gets going later this spring/summer bullets will no longer be an issue.

Nightey Night.....

Sorry to get off subject, but Roy I have been trying to get some heavys from Paul he told me he was having problems with jackets comming apart in an 270AM 3 groove with lots of rounds throught it he was using to test with. He sent me some to try in my 5r rock first shot 530 yards direct hit. I knew they were working in my gun so just to be sure punched paper nice round holes. 7mm RHB told me that the 5 r barrel seemed to work better with the wildcats I wonder if you would have better luck with your experiment using a 5r barrel??
I know you have invested some $$$ in your equipment it may be worth a try .

 

[Kiwi Nate]

I run the 180gr VLD at 3184fps in my 7mmRUM. You can kiss the barrel a slow goodbye after 150-300 rounds as the throat wanders off down the bore- fully worn out at around (accuracy wise) 600 rounds if long range precision is your game. I will be lucky if I keep this current barrel past 400 rounds, will just have to wait and see how it wears. Have a look at the 7mm-.300 Win mag thread if you want a low recoiling flat shooter that won't turn you sour. Otherwise, as others have suggested, you will need to go up in caliber. A super flat trajectory really isn't that big of a deal anyway, not with modern software. It's the shooter's ability to understand the wind that is the biggest challenge.

 

[Overkill338]

The over bore hyper velocity magnums always look like the cats meow on paper and in the ballistic software but there are several prices to be paid to get those cool paper ballistics. Cost of powder, constantly replacing beat up brass, costs to the gun smith for setting the barrel back regularly, costs of new barrels and the cost to redevelop new loads for all those new barrels. I have played the game and payed. And payed and payed.......Now I am looking into the WSM variety. Then again, I shoot ALOT.

Currently my .300 RUM is running just over 3100 with a 180gr Interlock. I'm guessing barrel life would be a lot better at this speed, but I want more. My groups are .4"s everytime now. Maybe when this weather clears up some, I can experiment with the Bergers and Accubonds.

 

[Iron Worker]

3100 FPS 180 gr bullet out of a 300 RUM ! You can easily get that with a 300 Win Mag !

 

[adam32]

I run the 180gr VLD at 3184fps in my 7mmRUM. You can kiss the barrel a slow goodbye after 150-300 rounds as the throat wanders off down the bore- fully worn out at around (accuracy wise) 600 rounds if long range precision is your game. I will be lucky if I keep this current barrel past 400 rounds, will just have to wait and see how it wears. Have a look at the 7mm-.300 Win mag thread if you want a low recoiling flat shooter that won't turn you sour. Otherwise, as others have suggested, you will need to go up in caliber. A super flat trajectory really isn't that big of a deal anyway, not with modern software. It's the shooter's ability to understand the wind that is the biggest challenge.

WOW! Thats crazy, I thought it'd make it to at least 1000 rounds...

 

[Kiwi Nate]

Yeah, crazy allright- and thats with a very tough steel on a custom barrel. I chewed out the throat on a lightweight SPS 7mmRUM over Christmas, 200 rounds, goodbye throat, worn in and worn out in three weeks.

Later in the year, if I can afford to rebarrel, I will cut these barrels in half lengthways and post some macro pics of how ugly thjings can get in a 7mm RUM bore.

 

[J E Custom]

Highdrum.

There are many calibers that will wash out the barrels faster than others and the 7 RUM
is one of them. So if you wan't to shoot F class matches I would not recomend it or some
others because with practise and 60+ shot matches it won't last very long. If you want to
hunt only with it you can get many years out of it.

It is a very flat shooting round and currently the contender for title of the flattest shooting
factory cartrige available.

But there is a few things that can help extend the barrel life on any rifle and I can vouch for
it because I have tried to make my barrels last as long as possible not so much from a cost
standpoint but when you have an accurate rifle you wan't to make it last as long as you can.

I like to pull a bore snake through the barrel every time I shoot it if possible this sweeps out
all of the unburned powder and loose carbon that can/will ware the bore faster when you
fire the next round on top of it, (If you want to see just how much is there from just one shot
fire one round through a clean barrel and then push a dry patch through the bore and look
at it you will be amazed at how much trash is there.

When hunting I carry a bore snake with me for this (Easier that a cleaning rod) and after the shot it is easy and fast and the rifle is ready for the next shot.

Throat erosion is another problem and can be improved some by different types and brands
of powders, cooling time between shot (If Possible), Stainless barrels will normally hold up
better (More ware resistant than chrome Molly) and Lead angle of the lands at the throat
The reamer makers have a good take on this and will recomend the best angle for your use.

The 264 win mag became notorious for this but most were hunting rifles and have lasted a
long time with no more rounds than hunters put through them in a year of hunting (5 to 10).

I lerned of the advantages of the cleaning/sweeping from a good friend that had fired an
estamated 1500 to 1600 rounds through a 7mm STW and had not lost any of it accuracy.

I have a 7mm RUM and plan of using it for hunting only so I am not concerned about barrel
life. And I practice what I preach (clean after each shot if possible).

All over bored cartriges are bad on barrels but as long as you are aware of this buy what you
want and don't look back. But if you plan on shooting a lot of rounds weekly/monthly
then there are better choices. Something allong the lines of a 280 rem.

The best caliber for you is the one you want as long as you understand there is no free
ride.

Just some comments and opinions that may help.

J E CUSTOM

 

[highdrum]

Thanks guys! I may just go with a 7mm STW or 7mm Roy as they aren't slouches either. But should offer much better barrel life.

 

[Kiwi Nate]

Dry pull between every shot is a good idea.

Yes, have to admit, one of my greater problems is that I use the RUM every week. It is also expected to fire three rounds in quick succession which is hard on the throat.

If I fired 10-15 rounds a year from it, it would last forever. On the other hand, if I only fired 10-15 rounds with it a year, I wouldn't get to learn how it shoots in our winds.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Well I'm not here to call anyone out, but some of these posts are just not what I have saw from my 7mm AM. It has around 460 rounds downrange, all were 160 nosler accubonds at 3500-3575 fps. each loading the MV goes up 25 fps as (I guess) the brass hardens. at 3575 fps I anneal and its back to 3500.
I've only shot ball powders, my barrel has never been hot. I have a 4 groove, 9 twist 30" lilja.
My original load for the accubonds was jammed .006" into the lands and I did on occasion pull a bullet while unloading a live round, after 460 rounds I still occasionaly pull a bullet unloading a live round, now how bad can my throat be eroded? I shoot 30-50 rounds a year through this rifle besides what I use during hunting season, I've used it 3 seasons took 26 deer with it, how many more do you think its good for?
These are the reasons I can't except the "burnt the throat out in a weekend" responses, I don't think its possible unless you do it intensionaly.
RR

BTW my 7mm AM cases have 122 gr capacity of H2o

 

[Kiwi Nate]

Thats why I want to get the barrels off these rifles and cut them in half with an angle grinder, so I can substantiate what has been seen through bore scopes - with macro photos.

I don't have much choice over how cool the barrel stays during shoots as the rifle is often used by my hunting clients. Its not uncommon for clients to fire 3 shots in quick succession. The long range rifle is available week in, week out as we don't have set hunting seasons here.

The other problem as stated earlier, is that I have to practice a lot to understand how the wind changes from valley to valley here. Last night, I was shooting at 735 yards, down the length of a valley with a 15mph left to right crosswind. I dialed for 15mph but missed the target. I set the scope for zero wind and hit the target. When I went down to the target, a massive right to left draught was coming down a side valley (evening cooling etc). The big steep valleys here are always a challenge like this. I tend to avoid using the cheaper .308 for LR practice as it ends up several yards off target, I can't see the bullet strike and am left wondering what the heck is going on. Hence why I would rather practice with the rifle that is going to be used for the long shots anyway.

In a slightly different situation three weeks ago, I had a client here for a pig hunt. He spied a pig at 350 yards and being of an age where his joints would not allow him to climb down the ridge and get closer, he took the shot- and hit it in the backside. The poor pig took off at a hundred mile an hour, down the valley. I had three choices, either leave the clients behind and take off with the dog after the pig, take the clients back to the hut, then come back, go to the landrover and get the RUM.

The pig re-appeared again, way down the valley, still trotting along, the client had given up and was looking quite dejected. I went to the Land Rover, grabbed the gun, ammo, put the drop chart in my mouth. Ran back to the ridge edge, lay down, range 604 yards, angle must be 15-20 degrees-I better leave off a click and be sure not to aim above the center line, wind is about 5mph, ohh, better avoid the front roasts otherwise the client will have no meat left at all, aim, fire- job done.

Thats when all the practice pays off for me, being able to get a shot off quick on a non stationary target at long range, no mucking about.

Hope that explains my situation a bit better.

I am getting close to 400 rounds with this rifle which is a testament to the custom barrel. Whether it makes it to 600 rounds, who knows.

If you have the time to let the barrel cool between shots and only fire a handful of shots per year, thats great. You are still under the 600 round mark so it will be interesting to see how it lasts. The Bore snake idea sounds very useful.