7mm RUM vs other mags

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by highdrum, Apr 16, 2009.

  1. highdrum

    highdrum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    I was plugging the 180gr Berger VLD's into a ballistic program and realized if you can launch them at 3300fps+ they absolutely outshoot anything 250gr and under in any caliber bullet.

    Now for the cartridge to push it:

    7mm RUM (is this the same case as the 300RUM, or would the 300RUM necked down be advantegous as in case w/ the .338 edge?)

    .284 Norma Mag, based on the .338 norma case, necked down to .284, should yield roughly 97gr case capacity

    7mm Allen Mag, based on the .338 Lapua case, should be very samiliar to the Norma mag, accept in long magnum format

    (of coarse w/ these large sums of powder being burnt, I realize the need to a high quality 28-30" tube)

    Anyone have expierence w/ these cartridges? how about highspeed 7mm barrels? the 180gr vld Berger bullets?

    I know Nathan Dagley is planning on building the .284 norma, I am looking forward to that! Any HELP would be MUCH apreciated, thanks guys.
     
  2. highdrum

    highdrum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    There's also the 7mm-300 Weatherby/7mm-378 Weatherby variants. W/ 92 and 120 grains capacity respectfully, however I don't care for belted/double radius shoulder cartridges.
     

  3. gamedog

    gamedog Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    591
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    My 7 RUM loves the 180gr Bergers @ 3007 fps. Not the numbers your looking for, but good accuracy, low velocity spread and better barrel/brass life than running the pi$$ out of it.
    If your going to play, your going to pay:D
     
  4. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,829
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    What gamedog said.

    "If youre gonna play, you WILL pay." That little bore with all that powder and gas shooting those long heavy bullets at near the speed of light.......Your barrel will be shot out nealy as fast:)

    All of the RUMs are hard on barrels. The trade off is high retained energy of which the 338 RUM or EDGE using 300 SMK's is the king. More energy, better barrel life etc......

    IMHO if youre set on a 7mm then a slightly smaller case may be a bit more appealing. A 7mm rem will offer good velocities with th 168-180 pills and longer life.

    Guess you got to ask yourself how much you plan on shooting it.

    The over bore hyper velocity magnums always look like the cats meow on paper and in the ballistic software but there are several prices to be paid to get those cool paper ballistics. Cost of powder, constantly replacing beat up brass, costs to the gun smith for setting the barrel back regularly, costs of new barrels and the cost to redevelop new loads for all those new barrels. I have played the game and payed. And payed and payed.......Now I am looking into the WSM variety. Then again, I shoot ALOT.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2009
  5. highdrum

    highdrum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Thanks a lot for the info guys, I appreciate all the wisdom you have, as I am pretty new to the long range shooting scene.

    Is there a limit on velocity that the 180 berger can fly? I hear the 168's start to break down past 3250-3300 depending on twist of coarse.

    I would like the velocities higher, but if I can't have them, I might just have to step up to the .308 or .338 calibers, as I know the 210 smk @ 3150 hangs w/ the fast 180 7mm's.

    I call BS on all of Lazzeroni's stuff, all # @ high altitudes w/ light bullets, of coarse, its a hunting round, trying to show off I guess.

    Barrel life would more than likely be better on a .338/.308 weapon of this case capacity range huh?
     
  6. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,829
    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Yes. As the bore gets bigger, the bbl life gets better. To a point that is. 100 grain capacity case is a 100 grain capacity case. Going from a 284 to 338 wont buy you another 3000 rounds but can buy you 500. At least in the RUM cases anyway.

    Dont overlook the 210 JLK and 208 AMAX. These are very high BC bullets up to par with the .284 180 grain bergers. They also deliver more energy. Guys are getting about 3200 with the 210's and 208's with the 300 RUM. Again, you will have to pay to play. Not much better barrel life over the 7mm RUM is expected here either.

    Honestly, if youre just getting into this arena, start smaller. Big boomers are tempermental and expensive. They can put a sour taste in a mouth fast.

    Dont get me wrong, big cases have their place and do excellent for the jobs they were designed to do but dont get caught up in bigger is better. Trust me I know how it feels to want the biggest baddest thing out there just because theyre cool and impressive. They are in fact cool and impressive but not always practical, espescially if youre somewhat new in the sport. You really need something that will work for you instead of you working for it. After you are more comfortable, then try a big boomer.

    the WSM line is somewhat short of the RUM performance level but they are (IMHO) easier to load for, cheaper to operate and offer more life. You can still drive a 210 to 2800-2900 depending on the barrel. You will do it with a lot less frustration than the hyper velocity versions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2009
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

    Messages:
    8,853
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2004
    Michael,

    Wooo hoooo you're raining on my parade............:) But I'm one of those power driven folks.:rolleyes:

    I shoot a 270 Allen Mag but wish I would have went with a 7mm due to the lack of 270 heavy bullets. I've shot her an extra bunch just just because. I fully expect to get a few shots over 1000 rounds through it. A 7mm smoker should exceed that amount of total shots just because it would be in someone else's hands.:) Once I get things settled out the rifle won't see 10 shots a year thus its life will be long.

    I am treating berger bullets very harshly. The 150s won't shoot at any "reasonable" velocity in my fast twist 3 groove 30" bbl. The less the jump the smaller the group but min size is 1.5 MOA.

    I'm working on a process to reduce 7mm Bergers to 277. When this is done to the 168s group size is right around 1 foot @ 50 yds. Really!. All holes are out of round to some extent. More than 90% of the holes are nearly horse shoe shaped. This is at velocities less than 3000 fps.

    I suppose the same results would be achieved with the 180gr normal jacketed bullets.

    The 180gr thick jacket match bullet shows good promise.

    Highdrum, I'd recommend something like a 338 RUM, EDGE, or some such. Push the 300 SMK to whatever velocity you wish. Learn its drop and you're good for long range on larger animals. My carry rifle is a 338 RUM sporter weight with its range being limited only by the scope on it. To 900 yds its deadly and really fun to shoot.

    But I wouldn't run away from one of the big 7s but I'm bettin you'll be short on bullet selection. One of the noted smiths here has gone the berger route and has ended up shooting 160 NABs in his. He mentioned, if I recall correctly, that he didn't notice much if any difference in jacket thickness between the regulars and the thicks.

    When the Wildcat bullets gets going later this spring/summer bullets will no longer be an issue.

    Nightey Night.....
     
  8. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,612
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    When that ultramag case came out in the late 90's I necked it to everything. Very poor barrel life in the 7mm so I forgot that idea. I still have two with 31" barrels and the ballistics are great for limited shooting at antelope and deer. I would like to sell those. If you worked up your load and then just shelved it for hunting only it may have some value. I don't know what your planning on hunting with it but if you plan on including elk you will learn that elk don't read ballistic charts. If you plan on being an accomplished elk hunter you will end up with a 338.
     
  9. Big Jedd

    Big Jedd Member

    Messages:
    5
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2008
    Hello from Southeast Arkansas. Pleasure to be here. I'm new to the art of longerange shooting. I'm currently awaiting a new 30" Kreiger tube for my 7rum. I also am planning to launch 180 vld's thru it. It's intended use will be trophy whitetails across really long beanfields. Hoping it will be laser death.
     
  10. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

    Messages:
    3,040
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2007
    I would have to say that I am an accomplished elk hunter, and I have shot most of my elk with a bow. 4 of them with a 30-06. And only one with an overbore 30 cal. None with a cartridge larger than a 30 cal. I don't feel held back by a lack of having a .338. I don't believe that an individual must have a .338 in order to hunt elk. In fact, I would guess that a very small percentage of elk taken, are taken with calibers larger than .308.

    Just my opinion, not looking for an argument. Just don't want people to think that they have to have a giant rifle in order to be an "accomplished" elk hunter.

    Steve
     
  11. highdrum

    highdrum Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    I believe that the Long Ranger was talking from a long range view point. If I want to shoot elk out to a thousand yards, get a .338 magnum of some variety.
     
  12. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,312
    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2004
    The 7mmRUM has the same case as all other RUMS except the 338 RUM which is a little shorter.

    Case capacity is about 107grs AVG with most powders.

    I have shot 140s and 150s but nothing larger because I wanted flat trajectories,And it delivered.

    My 140gr loads were over 3600 ft/sec and the 168 SMKs were 3300+ ft/sec .

    The bergers like to be seated close to the lands and the RUMs all have lots of freebore so you
    have to single load because they won't fit in the mag.

    J E CUSTOM
     
  13. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,612
    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Rockymt, Sorry to have offended you. This forum is kinda like watching the 6 o'clock news. All you ever hear is a short soundbite edited exactly the way they want you to believe it. I just can't write an essay every time I get on here. In long range hunting for elk I have found the 338 to be the most effective weapon. Most of the 7mm ultramags I did came back for rebarreling because of short barrel life or after the elk hunt they realized a larger, heavier bullet would be better. I still have two and five 7mm stw's. The 7mm's are great calibers and mine shoot very well. There are better choices for long range elk though in my opinion.

    I have shot quite a few record class elk with a bow, more than ten booners. Also some with a pistol and many with a rifle. Also through guiding and being in a ton of hunting camps for 40 years have seen hundreds shot with every caliber. My wish is not to offend anyone but to help guys through my vast experience so that hopefully they don't have to spend a fortune like I did to figure out what is best. They can draw from all that experience and do it right the first time. Whole lot cheaper that way. I don't care if nobody listens or cares what I say. All I can do is put it out there and let them decide.

    JE wrote about exactly what a 7mm ultra will do and if that is what a guy wants have fun with it. I just said my experience with it. They can get one knowing they may have shortenned barrel life but the ballistics are great. Good luck with your hunting this fall.
     
  14. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,634
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    i had a 7rum a few years ago, would spit the 180 Bergers out at 3250. was never pleased with the consistancy, so i built an edge. simply put, i love my 338 and dought i'll ever own another 7mm.

    note of disclaimer. i have a 7-08, but it's for the boy when he starts hunting.