7mm RUM or 338 Lapua Mag for Long Range Pdoggin

Discussion in 'Varmint Hunting' started by TheReeper, Nov 14, 2008.

  1. TheReeper

    TheReeper Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys, I am getting ready to start collecting parts for a new long rang Pdog rifle. I will be building this rifle for shooting dogs out to 1500 to 1700 yards. What cartridge would you recommend. I like the 7RUM because it gives me many choices on excellent VLD type bullets from 162 A-Max to the 180grn Berger. The 7RUM can push the 180grn bullet with a BC of .684 out of a 30" tube at around 3350fps. How does that bullet and velocity compare to a the 338 Lapua Mag pushing the 300grn Matchking at around 2950fps. What do you guys think. I know the Lapua brass is better, but what cartridge and bullet combo will be more deadly out to 1500 yards. From what I can see, the 7RUM with the 180grn VLD at 3350fps has better ballistics than 338 LM with the 300grn MK out to 1500 yards, less drop and windage. Please, give me some info so I can make the correct choice.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2008
  2. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

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    Reeper,
    You have a good sense of humor, with that said put down the crack pipe for a few minutes.
    If you want a 1mile pdog gun you are much better off going with a 6mm or a 6.5mm.
    If you really think a 7RUM is better than a 338LM keep hitting your crack pipe and I will keep laughing.
    UB
     

  3. TheReeper

    TheReeper Well-Known Member

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    UncleB, not smoking crack. I was just trying to get some opinions. I ran the Ballistic chart for 180grn VLD and the 300grn MK and this is what I got with a wind speed of 10mph. I used the Nightforce Ballistic program

    180grn VLD @ fired at 3350fps 0ut to 1500 yards-36.00 MOA for elevation and 7.50 MOA for windage.

    300grn MK fired at 2950fps out to 1500 yards-44.75 MOA for elevation and 7.75 MOA for windage.

    I am trying to learn and that's why I am trying to find out what cartridge would be better for this goal of shooting a small Pdog at these ranges. Your help and explination would be great. From what the NF program is telling me, the 7RUM load with a 180grn VLD will give me the best chance. If I am missing something, please let me know.
     
  4. VSSF

    VSSF Well-Known Member

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    My 338 Edge works for woodchucks,300gr SMK's,no 1000yd shots yet,but i'm trying.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. ol mike

    ol mike Well-Known Member

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    Definately a .338 -.338 ackley would be my choice.

    When berger and hornady come out w/ the big vld's and amax you'll have a great longrange set up.
    The 7rum will probably shoot out the barrels in 1,000 rounds or so -so si'd stick w/the bigger diameter barrel.
    Also i'd go w/ the longest barrel i could so you can rechamber and recrown it a time or two.
     
  6. TheReeper

    TheReeper Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info guys. That's a good point about the new 338 Berger and Hornady bullets. I am going to go with a 338 Lapua Improved and go with a 30" barrel. Should be able to push the 300grn bullets at 3000fps. Once again thanks for the info.
     
  7. Stgraves260

    Stgraves260 Well-Known Member

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    Hello I'm new to this site I'll try and help you with your 7mm rum and 338 lapua prob. I think you should do the 7mm rum myself. For even if just because of the higher bc. I don't care if a bullet is more heavy. It doesn't mean they all ways hit harder. A 30 call hits harder than a 7mm out to about 350yrds. But past that the7mm blows the 30 call away. The 7mm also has less recoil witch means better accuracy, and that's what really counts on a long range varment rifle. Heck for any rifle at that. There is not a 30 call rifle out there that hits harder than a 7mm rum. Period. Well there is John lazzeroni arms. But hell I don't make that kinda money. If you think the 7mm rum is fast you should really check lazzeroni arms. You can add another 200 to 250 fps. I hope this helps you. Oh and check out armlites ar30. To bad it's not a 7mm.
     
  8. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

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    You just cant miss them fast enough!!! @ that range its a numbers game, not velosity or energy but just plain number of shots till an unlucky dog catches a slug. A dog is just plain smaller than a gun and shooter can throw a group. Big rounds with a lot of powder capacity heat up fast and will limit the # of shots per wind condition.
    My first plan for a long range dog was a 50BMG, not a bad plan as I put the fear of god into every town and came close with most shots. The problem is the blast from this cannon had every dog running for a hole and I only had 5 shots before the barrel was too hot to continue. The guys I was shooting with had Bruce Artis type guns (big heat absorbing barrel blocks) shooting heavy slow bullets out of WSMs and WMs. They could get off 40 rounds per sitting and the blast didnt bother the dogs way out there like the BMG did.
    Good luck with your attempt, sure is fun trying and certainly doable but no walk in the park.
     
  9. Stgraves260

    Stgraves260 Well-Known Member

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    Mornin. Yea I love shootin those dogs. I went on my first dog hunt in new Mexico about a month ago. It was a blast. I have a rem 260 with a 10power super sniper scope from swfa. I'm glad I got the side focus. I was only shootin 200 to 250yrds with it. Then a new friend of mine let me shoot his 223 ar 15. That thing was bad ass. It's funny because I figured a dog to be 10" tall so I used my scope because the mill dot. Judged figured the distance @ 430 yards. Then shot his rifle hole shit a perfect head shot. I did even hear the sound of the rifle over my 4 friends yeallin at me sayin great shot. So I asked my new friend if he would not mind walkin down there to walk it of and see how far it is. He is 6'4" so I'm sure he takes 3' steps. He walked off 435yrds. So I think I'm good with my mill dot. I think that was a good shot. I am proud of it. But the thing is my friends won't stop talkin about my 180yrd shot with my 22lg. It's a marlin with a ska stock and a pine ridge scope. When the bullet hit the dog it sounded like I was snapin my fingers. Thanks for the reply.
     
  10. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, in my endeavor to become a better long range shooter, I have two things that I have concluded. 7mm is an excellent caliber for long range work no matter who tells you it isn't. The other thing, is that bigger isn't necessarily better. I know of two guys right now that use a 300 Weatherby Imp. and another using a 300WSM trying to be in the 2mile club shooting pdogs. Speed helps, but it isn't everything especially when you are shooting something as little as a pdog. If you were going after elk, I would be right on board with you.

    If this is a dedicated pdog gun, price of reloading should also be taken into consideration. The size and class bullet you are planning on shooting are pretty expesive. My cousin gets 65 rnds per pound of powder with his .338 Lapua. He loads 100.1 grns of Retumbo with 250 Lapua Scenars and 250 SMK's. He figured a cost of 140.00+ per 100 to reload.

    With my 300WSM, I load 200grn SMK's with 61.5 grns of RL17. I load for around 62.00 per hundred rounds. That equates to $.62 per round. The Lapua loads at $1.40 per round. That in my opinion is an expensive pdog round. I'm just trying to show the reality of the cost into your decision.

    For what you are doing those rounds will work admeriably, but I thing you might want to consider a WSM caliber, or something of the like. I am considering a 7mmRM to achieve the same goals for ground hogs. The reason I am choosing this round is due to the bigger boiler room over the WSM. Barrel life is going to be longer as well. Now if you are considering to go for big game as well then hook your self up with either caliber and you won't be disappointed. Sorry for being long winded.

    Tank
     
  11. JUDD

    JUDD Well-Known Member

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    I love the ballistic advice that comes out sometimes on this site...LMAO:D
     
  12. remingtonman_25_06

    remingtonman_25_06 Well-Known Member

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    Also, another thing I haven't seen mentioned yet is when you miss, which you'll be doing lots of that at 1500+yards, you need to be able to SEE where you miss. Much easier to spot a 300g slug vs a 180g slug at 1500 yards, I guaruntee you that much.

    And all that about no 30 cals hitting harder then a 7 RUM, when you compare apples to apples, there is still no comparison, bigger bullets DO hit harder. Who cares what the numbers say on a computer screen.


    Less recoil= better accuracy is nonsense if you ask me. Thats what you read in gun mags by guys who dont know how, or just cant shoot big rifles period. Big rifles are just as accurate as the smaller ones, one just has to know how to shoot them and work up the proper loads. My 338 EDGE shoots 300g SMK's into 1/2 MOA at 100 yards the same as my lowly .222 rem throws 40g vmaxs into 1/2 MOA at 100 yards, theres 50 lbs of recoil difference between the two.
     
  13. Boss Hoss

    Boss Hoss Well-Known Member

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    +1 I just about fell out of my chair on that one!! LMFAO!!!!

    I have several 338 Improved's and they do recoil more than the RUM and my RUM is a 300 Slowpoke which is of the improved variety..
     
  14. Stgraves260

    Stgraves260 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry it took so long to get back with everyone. Maybe yall can help me then with the 338 lapua prob. A 300 grain bullet verses a 180grain bullet. Yea your right that's apples to apples. SMK says that bullet has to travel at 1700 fps to expand. Whitch at 1000 yrds it's just under that. But that's cool because the millatary says it's efective range is 1750 yrds. So that confused me. At 1500yrds the bullet has about 850" drop. You better have one hell of a rifle scope to have that many adjustments in it. And by the time you reach out that far your 1/4 moa scope is moving almost 4" per click. I'll have to get with my friend who is a sniper and explain that one to me. Because I will admit when I'm wrong. I have no prob with that I'm only human. But if serria says there bullet doesn't expand under 1700fps then I really don't understand. Now the 7mm prob. Just do this check on lazeronie arms. There 180 grn bullet is flyin at about 3350 fps. Just check for your self. They are in the record books for the fastest bullets. And at 1500yrds the 180 grn 7mm is still traveling at 1600 fps and serria says that is still fast enough for the 7mm to expand. And it has under 550" of drop at 1500 yrds. My scope has plenty of moa's of adjustment for that. If bothe bullets expand properly then yes!! The 300 grn 338 will hit harder. But if it doesn't expand then I'm sorry because it will not hit harder than a 180 grn 7mm. That is why there are different bullets out there for what you entend to use them for. More solid bullets for close range and softer ones for those long range.