I just had to post the latest grouping I had w/ the 180 grain vld. This is from a box stock sendero sfII 7 rm w/ a mark 4 6.5-20x50 illum. scope w/ ferrel rings and bases. Load is as follows: 68.3 grains of retumbo fed gm 215 primers, rem brass and bullet seated at the lands. pic address is here:http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o125/linksmechanic/IMG_3087.jpg it's a 4 shot group at a 100 yards. the rate of twist in this rifle is 9 1/4"