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Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by southpa, Mar 8, 2013.
Enough to kill all north americas big game out to 1000 yards? Some say go with .300....
What do the ballistics tables and practice with the 7mm Mag for your intended loads for 1000 yards tell you? Some do say go with a 300....If your practice, loads and tables say not ideal for 1000, I would say go with a capable 338. I have all three and would take the 338 for my first choice at 1000 on any of our NA big game animals.
Keep in mind im asking because im new to LR and trying to decide on a caliber. What about smaller big game like deer within 200 or even 100? I guess i should have specified but i meant from closer ranges all the way out to 1000. Wont a .300 or .338 for that matter be a little much for a blacktail within 100 yards? Ive taken many deer within 50 yards and as any sportsman knows, sometimes they're close and sometimes they arent. I realize there are deffinatley more adequate calibers to be shooting out to 1000 than a 7mag but from short to long range, large to small game (not varmints), In your opinion 7 or .300
My 7mm Mag makes an excellent deer gun from 50 to 900 yards using either the 168 or 180 high BC hunting bullets. I would not use my 7 Mag for 800-1000 yard elk shots with a 338 in the inventory. If you are primarily looking for a gun to hunt deer, the 7 Mag is a viable choice and readily available. If you are looking for an elk or moose gun to hunt around the 1000 yard range a 300 or 338 should be considered in your decision. And whatever choice you make, take the time to practice at your intended ranges under field conditions.
Something to understand about the 7mm rem mag: the published ballistics are super slow. My friend and I were comparing 150-165 gr data between the latest Hornaday manual and a Speer book from the 60s. The max charge of 4831 was 9-12 gr higher then. Differences in powder aside that is still a huge change. That friend is currently working up to find max in his rifle. He is 4.0 gr over max and still hasn't developed over pressure symptoms, his 154 is at 3225 in a 24" barrel with h4350. The conspiracy against this cartridge is well documented. The 7 mag will do what you want, nothing wrong with the 300 either, but now you have some additional info.
It is not the caliber. it is the rifle/scope /ammo capable of hitting at the longer ranges. usually weight and budget dictates a sendero/leup. if you get a 7mm or a 300 , 18 pounds, with a krieger barrel , shilen trigger , macmillian stock, nf 12-42 and some good ammo you have increased your capability. the 7mm or 300 are not too much for blacktail.
My 7mm rem got the nod to go to Africa with me in 7 weeks!
I'm with jakelly on this. I noticied the loading manuals starting playing down the 7Mag several years ago, especially Hodgdon, after the advent of the 7mmWSM. The same with the .300WinMag and the .300WSM. I believe it was all marketing hype to sell the new cartridges/rifles. Didn't buy it then and still don't.
I loaded the 150gn Ballistic Tip ahead of 63.5gn (.5gn over max in Nosler #6) of IMR4350 and got an average velocity of 3240fps. Very close to what Nosler quotes. I used this load in a 700P to take a 350lb Va. black bear at 15 steps. Yes, I agree, sometimes big game animals don't cooperate with us on the LongRange idea. The Ballistic Tip went through both shoulders, still going, I suppose. The bear never moved again (on his own).
Like roninflag suggest; with a 26" or longer barrel, good scope (Leupold at a minimum), solid platform (aluminum bedding block/stock) and good bullets with high BC's (take your pick) I feel the 7Mag will take big game from 0 to 1000yds with ease.
Your part? take the time to practice at your intended ranges under field conditions, like MMERSS said. Get proficient enough with your setup so all your shots are at least MOA at all ranges. 1/2 MOA even better! Good luck with your decision. JohnnyK.
For the most part I agree that the loading manuals have gone light on the 7mm RM, but a couple weeks ago Hodgdon updated their 7mm RM data with some some pretty hefty Retumbo and H1000 loads for the 180 VLD. I have trouble believing you could push the powder charge that high with any factory rifle with a 180. The velocity posted is easily attainable. The powder charges, though, are definitely not lawyer proof.
My vote goes to the 7mm mag! I know I'm just one person an to each his own, I've shot the 7mag for over 30 plus yrs an no grips at all. I own other calibers, just the 7mag is my pick. It's good for just about anything on the North American continent, but like with anything, bullet placement plays a major role! One of my favorite loads is 71grns,h-1000,160 seirra game king,win brass. CCI 250 mag primer. Gets ya about 3050 an is very accurate. There's other loads an calibers out there, this is just my fav!! Just my 2cts!!
There is no such thing as "overkill". When deciding which cartridge is best for hunting from 200-1000 yds, the 1000 yds factor trumps.
7mm RM 180 Hybrid, G7 BC .345, MV 2950
1000 yds Vel 1756, KE 1232, 5 MPH wind 4.5 MOA
300 WM 215 Hybrid. G7 BC .356. MV 2950
1000 yds Vel 1788, KE 1526, 5 MPH wind 4.4 MOA
The ballistics are very close, but the 300 delivers 25% more KE down range.
Bigger hole + more mass = more damage... which means more effective killing.
There's no voodoo or magic to it.
The 300 WM is a more effective killer than the 7 RM just like the 338 RUM is a more effective killer than the 300 WM. Physics is physics and facts are facts.
From what i can get out of this tread is southpa is really looking for a good caliber for deer! I think he also said something like a lot of his shots are up close!(50 yards to bout 150yrds) I might have read that wrong, but that's what I'm getting! 7mag,300mag,338,all are good! I'm still sticking with shot placement! Might open up a can of worms here, the caliber anybody chooses to shoot is their own choice, but if you don't have good bullet placement, the animal still suffers!
thats why i went 6.5 creed for a deer gun as i will practice alot more than i would with an uber mag of any short. elk different story but shot placement is number one on the list a gut shot animal with a 338 is a gut shot animal with 243.
Amen!!!! Nuf Said!!!!