I just read an article on Litz's website about stabilization and twist rate for the 7mm VLD's. I have a 9.5 twist barrel that absolutly hates the 168's for some reason, but I don't want to give up on Bergers just yet. Anyways assuming that the 180 VLD and Hybrids need about the same twist, it appears that a 9.5 will have a chance at stabilizing this bullet. It might not be the best, but I'm gonna try the Hybrids before I give completely up on Berger. Does anyone have any experience with this bullet (180 Hybrid) in something slower than the recommended 9 twist? I'm at 1300 feet above sea level, won't be shooting below 32 degrees, and it'll be coming out of a 7 mag at about 2800 to 2850fps. Thanks in advance.