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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics
7mm Allen Mag test rifle finished.....
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<blockquote data-quote="ricka0" data-source="post: 76324" data-attributes="member: 3086"><p><strong>Re: wc872 burn rate</strong></p><p></p><p>[ QUOTE ]</p><p> <font color="purple"> b1g b0re I don't intend upon debating powder burn rates and mathmatical equations but here are some facts.</p><p>#1 Yes H-50 BMG is listed as slower than H-870.</p><p>#2 WC872 is stated as being able to use H-870 data and AA8700 but My top end load for H-50 BMG was 100 grains behind either a 168 SMK or a 169.5 wildcat and on hot days ( above 85 ) will show pessure ( developed that load during the cold months ). So far I'm up to 102 grains of WC872 with the same bullets and have reached the <u> <font color="red"> </font> <strong>same velocity</strong> </u> <font color="blue"> </font> as H-50 BMG but have not gotten any pressure signs what so ever! I intend upon going up with the powder once again to wherever I get the best results or pressure signs. This tells me it burns slower than H-870, AA8700, and H-50 BMG powder since I have exceeded the previous load data for each powder by 2 full grains already.</p><p>#3 Kirby and jwp 475 also found the WC872 to be a slower burning powder in their tests by exceeding H-870 load data by a good margin along with H-50 BMG data as well.</p><p>#4 As far as barrel heat I have not used any hi tech device to measure it but when you can feel a difference by grabbing the barrel after 3 shots of the same bullets only different powder then there must be a difference. True I have not reached max level of WC872 yet and when I do there may be no noticable barrel heat difference at all and when I get there I will say I found no noticable difference in barrel heat at max loads for each powder. Right now it's a night and day difference between the 2 after 3 shots The BMG I assure you that you will turn it loose shortly after grabbing it and the WC872 you can hold with no pain or teeth gritting for as long as you want.</p><p></p><p>Like I said I don't want to argue mathmatics because I hated frieking equations and formula's in school and I don't like them any better now.</p><p>I'm only stating facts that I have so far and when I get more data collected on this subject I will share it over on a thread of mine in equipment reviews titled Wildcat bullets consistency and accuracy.</p><p></p><p>I'm through hijacking Kirby's wonderful thread about his new Allen Mag.</p><p>Sorry for the Hijack Kirby, Len, Dave, Ian ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif </font></p><p></p><p>[/ QUOTE ]</p><p>Double ditto on the Hijack apologies.</p><p>You guys are doing the important work - what powder (and load) produces the best results. I was only listing published burn rates - I'm not sure they are accurate. I plan on getting an 7mm Allen uber mag some day. I'm Kirby's biggest fan.</p><p></p><p>Burn rate is dynamic and dependent on many factors, temp and pressure being significant. Perhaps if you compared the H-50BMG and WC872 pressure curves you would see the H-50BMG spiking to max pressure then dropping off quickly (less area under the curve) - so less terminal velocity from the H-50BMG. Because H-50BMG (guessing here) drops off so quickly, when the bullet exits, there is still plenty of powder left burning to heat your barrel. If my conjecture is true, your barrel will last longer with WC872 while producing higher velocities. </p><p></p><p>Without temp, vel and pressure curve data, it's all conjecture. What is fact and not conjecture is that WC872 produces superior results - and that's really what we are all after.</p><p></p><p>I've ordered several batches of WC872 so I can get similar good results in some of my rifles.</p><p></p><p>And for the zillionth time: <ul type="square"> [*]I agree, no gas exactly follows the IGL - but for simple heat pumps (like guns) it is an excellent model [*]If the well understood and accepted heat pump mechanism is not the primary accelerator of bullets, provide credible evidence/explanation of an alternative mechanism such that two appropriate powders can produce the same terminal velocity with different heat flux. By appropriate I mean not using a powder that burns so slow much of the powder burning occurs after bullet exit and simply contributes to kick and heating the barrel. [/list] </p><p></p><p>2nd Summary: <ul type="square"> [*]Kirby makes the hottest/flattest shooting wildcats [*]Kirby's uber mags like WC872 [*]The only thing that matters is the measured performance (velocity/accuracy) of these guns. (And RUMS, I have 4 RUMS /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) [/list]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ricka0, post: 76324, member: 3086"] [b]Re: wc872 burn rate[/b] [ QUOTE ] <font color="purple"> b1g b0re I don't intend upon debating powder burn rates and mathmatical equations but here are some facts. #1 Yes H-50 BMG is listed as slower than H-870. #2 WC872 is stated as being able to use H-870 data and AA8700 but My top end load for H-50 BMG was 100 grains behind either a 168 SMK or a 169.5 wildcat and on hot days ( above 85 ) will show pessure ( developed that load during the cold months ). So far I'm up to 102 grains of WC872 with the same bullets and have reached the <u> <font color="red"> </font> [b]same velocity[/b] </u> <font color="blue"> </font> as H-50 BMG but have not gotten any pressure signs what so ever! I intend upon going up with the powder once again to wherever I get the best results or pressure signs. This tells me it burns slower than H-870, AA8700, and H-50 BMG powder since I have exceeded the previous load data for each powder by 2 full grains already. #3 Kirby and jwp 475 also found the WC872 to be a slower burning powder in their tests by exceeding H-870 load data by a good margin along with H-50 BMG data as well. #4 As far as barrel heat I have not used any hi tech device to measure it but when you can feel a difference by grabbing the barrel after 3 shots of the same bullets only different powder then there must be a difference. True I have not reached max level of WC872 yet and when I do there may be no noticable barrel heat difference at all and when I get there I will say I found no noticable difference in barrel heat at max loads for each powder. Right now it's a night and day difference between the 2 after 3 shots The BMG I assure you that you will turn it loose shortly after grabbing it and the WC872 you can hold with no pain or teeth gritting for as long as you want. Like I said I don't want to argue mathmatics because I hated frieking equations and formula's in school and I don't like them any better now. I'm only stating facts that I have so far and when I get more data collected on this subject I will share it over on a thread of mine in equipment reviews titled Wildcat bullets consistency and accuracy. I'm through hijacking Kirby's wonderful thread about his new Allen Mag. Sorry for the Hijack Kirby, Len, Dave, Ian ! [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] </font> [/ QUOTE ] Double ditto on the Hijack apologies. You guys are doing the important work - what powder (and load) produces the best results. I was only listing published burn rates - I'm not sure they are accurate. I plan on getting an 7mm Allen uber mag some day. I'm Kirby's biggest fan. Burn rate is dynamic and dependent on many factors, temp and pressure being significant. Perhaps if you compared the H-50BMG and WC872 pressure curves you would see the H-50BMG spiking to max pressure then dropping off quickly (less area under the curve) - so less terminal velocity from the H-50BMG. Because H-50BMG (guessing here) drops off so quickly, when the bullet exits, there is still plenty of powder left burning to heat your barrel. If my conjecture is true, your barrel will last longer with WC872 while producing higher velocities. Without temp, vel and pressure curve data, it's all conjecture. What is fact and not conjecture is that WC872 produces superior results - and that's really what we are all after. I've ordered several batches of WC872 so I can get similar good results in some of my rifles. And for the zillionth time: <ul type="square"> [*]I agree, no gas exactly follows the IGL - but for simple heat pumps (like guns) it is an excellent model [*]If the well understood and accepted heat pump mechanism is not the primary accelerator of bullets, provide credible evidence/explanation of an alternative mechanism such that two appropriate powders can produce the same terminal velocity with different heat flux. By appropriate I mean not using a powder that burns so slow much of the powder burning occurs after bullet exit and simply contributes to kick and heating the barrel. [/list] 2nd Summary: <ul type="square"> [*]Kirby makes the hottest/flattest shooting wildcats [*]Kirby's uber mags like WC872 [*]The only thing that matters is the measured performance (velocity/accuracy) of these guns. (And RUMS, I have 4 RUMS [img]/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ) [/list] [/QUOTE]
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