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Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by dskd, Apr 10, 2008.
how do people find these on game ?
do they kill clean ?
do they expand at all or tumble ?
I started shooting the 168 VLD's because of their high BC. Walt Berger helped me with some loading data and told me that the VLD was a fine hunting bullet as well. After two seasons with this bullet I've been very pleased.
My hunting crew killed several caribou, bull elk, and deer with them last year. Mostly with 30 cal 168s from a 300 Win but 2 caribou with 115 VLDs from a 25-06. All shots were in the ribs and the results were that none of the bullets penetrated the critters to the skin on the opposite side. All of the bullets penetrated the close side and blew up which shredded the lungs and did a good job of killing the animals quickly. All of the shots were less than 300 yards save 1 5-point bull that was at ~400. That bullet put an entrance wound on the inside of the rib cage on the opposite side of the bull that was about the same diameter as a softball and got into the shoulder but never penetrated it. In the future, I'm planning to use Bergers for long range work but will stick to something tougher like Scirroco's, Accubonds, or Partitions for hunting in thick cover.
We used the 168gr Bergers on antelope this year. 6 animals, 1 shot each, all broad side or quartering. Range was 3@ 450, 1@ 150, and 2@ 300yrds. My buck went 10 yrds and both does simply crumbled. Preformance was as promised, caliber sized entry w/2-3" penitration then "soup" for heart and lungs, and a 1-2" exit. Loads were 7WSM and 280 AI both at 2950fps.
check out the videos on bergers website. they are pretty impressive. I dont hunt with bergers and am currently favoring the accubonds in 30 cal 200 gr. But the BC of those 210 are kinda temping. My only hang up for not using the bergers is I see the benefit of a large exit would for tracking purposes if a poor shot were to happen.
JPRITT, I respect your decision on bullet selection and am by no means saying you are wrong and I am right.
IMHO the complete amount of energy needs to go from the bullet to the animal. The Berger does this better than any bullet I have seen. I have yet to get an exit on any game animal with the Berger VLD's. That includes shots from 30 on out to 700. I do like Nosler Ballistic tips but I have had them fail to open at longer ranges. I am talking out to 800 yards roughly.
Now my experience with the bonded bullets and X-type bullets has been this. Keep in mind that my family owns a high game fence ranch and I have seen hundreds of deer taken with all types of bullets. Most (~65% +) deer shot with these deep penatrating bullets run off over 50 yards. This is not on high shoulder or neck shots but boiler room shots. When the round passes straight through an animal it is a lot like hunting with a bow. The animal has to bleed out. Now quite a few do drop but they tend to get back up and run into the yoepon which makes it almost impossible to track.
The ballistic tip and VLD's do a much better job of DRT shots even if not put in the perfect place. The sheer amount of shock to the lungs and heart due to the bullet stopping about 2/3 of the way through and breaking into dozens of pieces create enough shock on the animal to fold them up. Just what I have seen in the past, I am not saying I am right though.
How do the bergers behave past 700 yds??
We have shot the 7mm 168gr bergers out to 1450 yards and they did great. We have pushed the 210 30cal VLD's out to a mile and were still holding around 20 inches. They do better than any bullet that I have shot past 1000. I have not shot the RBBT bullets from Wildcat yet but they is on the menu!
My XP Love's Em
I shoot them in my 7.21 Lazzeroni XP and they are awesome I hope they do as well on game as they advertise. I also plan on using them in my 300 Dakota XP when it's done.
but have you shot game at those distances with the bergers?? I meant to ask about the terminal ballistics .-thanks.
I wouldnt worry about not getting an exit wound with the bergers out to 500 yards on whitetails. These bullets may expand violently after penciling the first couple of inches, but the core retains enough energy to exit. I made my longest whitetail kill of 488 yards with a 6mm 115 vld. The wound tract was nasty looking as was the exit. I didnt need a good bloodtrail as the buck feel within sight, but it was there. I shot another nice buck at 300+ with the 7mm 168 quartering shot. Bullet entered through the front shoulder transversed the body cavity exiting through the ham....total devastation. I didnt expect these bergers to penetrate the way I have seen them penetrate.
Can’t post the photo of the 9 pointer I shot last season with a Berger 168 7mm RM. With the deer weight in at 170lbs the bullet did its job at 130 yards. With a speed of 2800 FPS at the muzzle these bullets perform great. I have a friend that shot 5 deer with the same results. I am going after Antelope this fall and plan to use the 168 VLD Berger bullets.
I have shot whitetail out to 448 with my 257 Weatherby shooting the 115VLD and he flopped on the spot(go to the whitetail thread and look at 448 yard buck). My cousing has takin a 600 yard whitetail with the 168VLD in 7mm with the exact same results. The only thing is we have never had any exit wounds with the bergers except on head shots and all of them were withing 250 yards.
Something else I think you need to see is a video called "Beyond Belief" as it showcases nothing but long range kills and they are all done with either a 243 with a 105 Berger, 7mm and 168 Berger, and a 300 with the 190 Berger. They take game out to 1078 yards(coyote) but also take a cow elk at 1074 yards. Tons of kills on the video too! Also they kind of give a little bit of arguing on why they can and do long range hunting.