600 Bergers Sorted by Bearing Surface!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Eaglet, Jun 26, 2007.

  1. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Results from sorting 600 bullets 0.308 caliber 210 gr. Berger.

    [​IMG]

    My understanding is that to shoot at 1K you want to sort them with-in 0.002". From goodgrouper's experience seems like 0.002" at 2K will give a large vertical spread. I have also read that you want to sort them with-in 0.003" from Bearing Surface manufacturers, I could be wrong, but they don't say what distance they're good for. I'm limiting my shooting on paper to 1200 yards . 539 pieces which is 89.83% fall within 0.002" and 412 pieces, 68.67% fall within 0.001". All comments are welcome. Would it be good enough to sort within 0.001 for 1200 yards?
     
  2. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Eaglet,

    Good work!

    I would think that data shows that the Bergers are darn decent.

    You now have the bullets from both sides of the bell curve to do a little testing.

    I like your attention to detail.

    Good post.
     

  3. eshell

    eshell Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Eaglet, excellent post indeed.
     
  4. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, Roy & E.Shell.
    I took quite a while, but the work it's just begining. Like
    Roy says, now I can do some testing.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. CAM

    CAM Well-Known Member

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    Eaglet
    It would be interesting to know if you loaded the odd balls and the ones long and short ones if you could tell the difference!! say at 1K.

    See if they change the conograph speeds.

    Now you better weigh them all!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    maybe check the over all lenght!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Thanks for posting the info
    CAM

    PS what part of Nevada are you from?
    have you shot at the Reno gun range?
    http://www.palominovalleygunclub.homestead.com/index.html
     
  6. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

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    [ QUOTE ]
    Eaglet
    It would be interesting to know if you loaded the odd balls and the ones long and short ones if you could tell the difference!! say at 1K.

    See if they change the conograph speeds.

    Now you better weigh them all!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    maybe check the over all lenght!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

    Thanks for posting the info
    CAM


    [/ QUOTE ]

    No, he should cull all the one's that are out of spec and give them to his buddy to shoot. I can't get any Bergers within a 100 miles because Eaglet bought them all.

    Eaglet, you've got too much time on your hands. Why don't you try to get a job or something. Give me a call. I'll take you to lunch.


    /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Eaglet,

    A suggestion if I may, ok?

    My natural tendency would be opposite to this, which I'm pretty sure makes this a good idea, I think. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

    Burn up those ones on the ends of the bell curve last. Use the ones near the peak to do the tuning etc. Get those SDs and ESs and groups where you want them.

    Then shoot your developed load with the ones on the fringes and compare the performance.

    The only reason I suggest this is that I'm just too lazy, selfish and a scab to do it myself. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

    Whatever you do, let us know how thing turn out.


    Cheapskate mooch Roy, signing off /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif
     
  8. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Cam,
    Good thinking Cam! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif
     
  9. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Roy,
    Of course you may!
    Excellent thinking, that'd be the only way to see what the others are doing. Thanks!
     
  10. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    Geargrinder,
    Believe me, it took 3 or 4 sections within about a week and a half, and the hardest part was to keep people out of my working room.
    About finding a job, you know I'm waiting on you! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

    I'll give you that call!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
     
  11. lazylabs

    lazylabs Well-Known Member

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    Have you done any similar test with other bullets? It would be interesting to see some SMK's and Amax percentages in comparison.
     
  12. Eaglet

    Eaglet Well-Known Member

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    I have not, but if you do a search you might be surprised.
    Maybe goodgrouper has posted something about that. I know that goodgrouper, UncleB, Shawn Carlock amongst others are pretty knowledgeable about sortings and such.
    Try looking through some of these. Click on the link.
    http://longrangehunting.com/ubbthreads/dosearch.php
     
  13. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    For 1200 yard shooting, I shoot groups with bullets that have no more than .002" variation from the bullet length "x" that I started the group with. This means that if I measure bullets and put a length of .?32 in the first row of my ammo box, I will put all the bullets that measure .?33 in the next row and .?34 in the next row and so on. When shooting a given bullet for group (lets say the .?33" row) I will grab a bullet only from that row or from the row above it or the row below it if there are any of those left over. Usually, I shoot the shortest bullets first and then move up to the next row. So in this scenario, I would have most likely already shot the .?32" and now I have started with the .?33" row. Now I am down to only two of those bullets left and I need three shots for the group or whatever. I simply grab ammo from the
    .?34" row and shoot. So I will go up or down .001" of the "x" bullet. I would never ever grab ammo from the fifth row in my box and shoot it together with ammo from the third row for 1200 or 1000 yard shooting. For anything under 800 yards, I don't think bearing surface makes enough difference to worry about. Now when I shoot at 2000 yards, I make kill attempts or group attempts only with ammo from one row of lenghts. If I get to the end of that row of ammo and need another shot or two, I will fire the new row as a sighter and then make corrections to account for the difference in ballistic coefficient. At 2k, we found that .002" difference in bearing surface length made dang near a full MOA difference in point of impact! That is over 20" just from shape of bullet-nevermind the differences in speeds and all the other stuff we have to take into account.


    I have measured more bullets than anyone else I know of and I would say that Lapua Scenars are the most consistent. Then Nosler Accubonds, Nosler Ballistic tips, Barnes TSX of good lot number, Sierra MK's(except for the 338 300 grain) and Hornaday AMAX tie, JLK's, Bergers, and then all the flat base tough hunting bullets come in last. Nosler Partitions are probably the worst overall or maybe Failsafes. Basically, the longer the bullet, or the harder and thicker the jacket, or the more materials used in one bullet, the more inconsistent the bullet will tend to be. I measure some of my 66 grain 6mm custom bullets from Ronnie Cheek that have #8 ogives and there have been none that aren't perfect!! But of course, these are J4 (soft) jacketed, short bullets that are made by hand so there should not be too much difficulty in manufacturing these compared to Bergers tough job of trying to make a needle-nosed 115 grain 6mm vld bullet from the same soft j4 jacket material.

    In chronographing the different bearing surface lengths, I have not seen them make too much difference in speed variations. At least, nothing that would have been distinguishable from normal extreme spreads for any given load. I may have seen a little faster velocities from the shorter bearing surface 300 grain MK's but not much. A couple of feet per second if any.

    Hope this helps. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  14. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    GG, 2 questions. when you said except for the 338/300 gr SMK, do you mean it's measurements are more consistant than the other MK's? i'm guessing that's what you meant. i'd say the ones i've measured were pretty good but i've not measured that many.

    my second question has to do with the diameter of the bullets compared to the baring surface length.when the bullet slugs up into the rifling,2 bullets of equal baring surface before firing, won't stay that way if the diameters of each are a tad different before.i realize we're talking about some very small differences,but you're shooting a little farther than most and are trying to find these small variables. not talking about all the other sorting like ogive lengths, just baring surface/diameter relationships and if it makes any velocity difference?