6.5 SS (Sherman Shortmag)

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by elkaholic, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Early heads up! I spoke with a reamer maker today and I am adding a little brother, with "big brother attitude" to the 6.5 Sherman. We have had such great success with the 6.5 Sherman that I decided to build a short action version that should equal the long action versions 3200' (140 gr.-26" barrel)with 3 grains less powder. The case length will be slightly shorter than a 6.5x47 Lapua and should fit in any short action without modification. The chamber will be reamed for max performance with the 140 Berger hybrid. The parent case will be the 270 WSM and chamber will be designed for Norma brass in a "no turn" neck although ANY WSM or SAUM brass could be used. The cartridge will pretty much stick with the other Sherman designs, i.e. low body taper, 40 degree shoulder, and long neck. (.320" in this case.) Barrel life should be considerably better than the 6.5 WSM with little loss in velocity, better case life and potentially better accuracy. This would make a great F-class round and certainly a very good long range hunting round. Case forming should be 1 stroke with the SS dies and then trim to length. The first firing will finish forming the case but without much stretching. My past experience with similar forming should provide useable rounds with good accuracy. The pluses I see for this round are: short action, mag velocity, better barrel life than mag, good brass with no belt, and good accuracy potential. Rhian (Bigngreen) and I have worked together on this so don't be surprised if he might be talked into chambering one for you??:D I know there are several good 6.5's out there now, but for those of us that "want it all" I think this cartridge may just fill a need. I will be ordering dies from Hornady so if anyone wants to jump on the band wagon early, let me know so they can make a run. The wait can be 5-6 months so if you want to bust a speed goat, etc, at 1000+ yards this fall, you'd better get smurfin'......Rich
     
  2. .284

    .284 Well-Known Member

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    Being a 6.5 aholic you're killing me here. I just got my reamer for my 6.5-06 from Dave Kiff after I sent him in some rounds and the resurgence in interest about your 6.5 Sherman could not of been at a worse time for me. Now this......

    Dave will make dies for you from the reamer he makes you if wanted. Have you had good luck with hornady or do you just want them to be available without using a reamer every time?

    Not from personal experience but just from reading the interweb it seems that most folks find a 6.5 wsm finicky to load for and have a short barrel life. Could you elaborate a bit on how you expect yours to be better.

    Thanks
     

  3. 87predator

    87predator Well-Known Member

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    Rich,
    Keep us posted. I'm looking for a 6.5 build, and am personally a fan of speed, but also unknown cartridges. Something when you tell somebody what it is, they ask what the heel us that? Once you get it perfected would you have reamer and such for sale.
     
  4. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    The 6.5 WSM IS finicky but I think it is primarily because of the velocity. In other words, most bullets are not built for that kind of stress; especially the thin jacketed varieties that we long range guys like to use. I also think the overbore tends to make things more fincky. This case will hold approx. 6-7 grains less than a 6.5 WSM which should help. As far as the barrel life is concerned, this case will be better because of the reasons listed above, plus the fact that it has a sharper shoulder and a MUCH longer neck which will keep the flame point well inside the neck. My 6.5 Sherman has this design with a .300 neck, which is .020" shorter than the 6.5 SS and it holds approx. 2.5 grains more powder and still has shown good barrel life so I have to assume the 6.5 SS will be AT LEAST as good. Also, the case has such a short burn column that the powder should burn more efficiently..........Rich
    p.s. I forgot to address the die issue. I just really like the quality of Hornadys CUSTOM dies but I may talk to Kiff about his. I do like the fact that hornady has my file and will make dies for others on request.
     
  5. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    It is proprietary but the reamer will be available to rent. Bigngreen (this forum) will likely have one before I do as he has a couple of barrels lying in wait:D I should have the reamer by the first of April or sooner.
     
  6. barnesuser28

    barnesuser28 Well-Known Member

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    When the barrel on my 22-250 burns out (its probably got 400 rounds left in her) i may chamber it in this, but i also may chamber it in a 300/375 S.I.:D better make sure Rhain has a reamer for the 30/375 S.I........ Just incase. The 22-250 is on a howa LA BTW.
     
  7. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Well, the Howa would certainly be plenty long for this cartridge and Rhian can rent my S.I. reamer anytime he likes:D........Rich
     
  8. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I'm really excited about this one, the possibility of true short action function with optimum bullet seating and velocity around 3200fps with a 140gr bulletgun)
     
  9. .284

    .284 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a good idea so far

    What does about 3 grains less powder than your Sherman put the approx capacity at?

    So are you thinking along the same lines as the original for fireforming by jamming into the lands on the first go? Does it look like the brass would need to be trimmed right away or more likely it will grow into that long neck length?

    You or anyone else run a quick load on it to get some ideas in which powders may work- h1000 maybe?

    Looks like there would be about 70 thou or so to chase the lands (based on your neck length)if you did start to eat the throat away. I like that you are thinking to make it a little shorter than a 6.5-47 lapua as this would leave the room required in a standard short action to do so. Having that option with a vld's type bullet I very cool with a standard mag box.

    There was a fellow on Alberta outdoorsman forum. that created something possibly similar using saum brass and I believe he used h1000 - might help for a starting point powder. I think he left the shoulder angle alone though - called it the 6.5 extreme and his handle lclund I believe.

    I'm not trying to bombard you with questions by any means, just love new 6.5 stuff
     
  10. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    Rhian.....I think the key word here is "TRUE". I am not aware of a 6.5 cartridge that should perform like this and actually fit in any short action magazine with long bullets seated to lands.......Rich
     
  11. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    The capacity will be about 72 grains. Fire forming will be VERY minimal. A very slight stretch to the body diameter and moving the shoulder from 35 to 40 degrees. The shoulder would be bumped back a little more than 1/4". The case would then be trimmed to approx. 1.83" and either loaded with a bullet and formed or using the shotgun powder/cream of wheat method. Retumbo, H1000, RL 25, would all be good options as well as even powders like RL 17. The 6.5 extreme is a different case. It is based on the 300 RCM which is a shortened 375 Ruger case (head dia. .530" vs the .550" on this case. This is why I am able to get the capacity/velocity out of this cartridge and still be a true short action round. I hope this helps......Rich
     
  12. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I read one article where the 6.5 extreme would make 3100' with 61.4 grains of retumbo. This does not surprise me. This is why I think the 6.5 SS will come close to 3200'......Rich
     
  13. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    We are off and running on the project. I ordered the reamer from PTG, a barrel from Benchmark ( 26" #5 fluted, 5r, 8 1/2 twist) and dies from Whidden. Everything is supposed to be here in about 6 weeks. I am going to try lapping the throat and sending the barrel in for melonite when it is still new. The donor action is a 700 SA in .222 that I have already.....Rich
    p.s. I mentioned in an earlier post the capacity would be around 72 grains but it appears that 70-71 will be closer
     
  14. elkaholic

    elkaholic Well-Known Member

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    I read back through all the posts and want to make a couple of corrections. For any of you who have messed around with creating a wildcat, you know that CHANGES happen:D. First of all, the body length will actually be between the Lapua and Creedmore. The case length is slightly longer than the creedmoor because of the much longer neck. (.320" vs .260"). This will not make the coal longer as the throat is reamed to match the length from the BASE of the neck. This loaded round should fit in any std. box with a 140 Berger seated to the lands.
    Earlier I stated that I would be ordering dies from Hornady but I didn't like the waiting period. I checked with Redding and they were a YEAR out! The good news, John Wooden will make me a set of micrometer dies in 6 weeks:D........Rich