6.5 140 Hornady SST

[Matt27]

Got Home from the range and have a few numbers.
Yesterday i made a grid with 1" lines on it and set it at 50 yards (at the house) to check my Click values.I have a Sightron 24x with 1/8" cliks. For a true 1/8 min. click it is .130875. Mine are .132 per click. So my actual MOA is 1.056 at 100 and used this figure to figure drop in inches from my actual fire results.
Conditions-
Alt.-4250
Bar-30.04
Humidity-26%
wind-10-15 from 12:00-12:30

The morning was nice and exactly the same conditions as last week when i tested the 139 scenars. The scope repeated the moa's needed last week this week. Had a 10mph wind from the 12:00-12:30. The way the range is setup with the wind in your face at 12:00 you can shoot out to 660yards and for longer than that you turn slightly to the left and get out to 1000 so wind is from 1:00-1:30.

I fired 10 rounds through the chrony for average velocity. It came out to 2798 10 feet from muzzle for the 139's.

300-4moa-12.672"
400-7moa-29.568"
500-10moa-52.8"
660-14moa-97.5744"
1000-27moa-285.12"

After the 660yards they had the steel targets down but the 1000yard grizzly was there. That is why the gap.

So i tested the 140sst's for accuracy and when found the load i thought is it i loaded some more and chronyed 10 of them for the average. 2762fps 10feet from the muzzle.

300-4moa-12.672
400-7moa-29.568
500-10moa-52.8
660-14moa-97.5744
1000-27moa-285.12

I don't think anybody will get and results with any balistic software to confirm this. Why? because with the head wind i had to add 1moa and when the wind moved to 12:30(or a little more) it was high. I tried to keep all shots the same with the wind but it looks like i didn't by the results.

Anyways I am with Jerry on this. This bullet needs to be looked at. IT flew right along with the 139's and it's B.C is around .6. I think the sst is a little higher the the 139's.I also noticed that the 140's were smacking the steel alot harder.At least the report of the hit back to me was louder. Even at 1000. It also seemed that the 140's were getting to 1000 faster.

I am by NO means intelligent as some of you are i am just reporting what my field results are showing me.

I forgot to add. Any other suggestions? I ran out of powder and have to locate some more to try and test next week.

[ 08-21-2004: Message edited by: Matt27 ]

 

[Dave King]

Are these the actual come-up you used for these two bullets?? They appear to be identical.

 

[Mysticplayer]

Matt, thanks for experimenting with those SST's. I am getting some very nice craters in my steel gongs and wind drift is pretty low.

Went out shooting again, mostly at 600yds. With a moderate head wind, I needed about 1 MOA more up. That was 9 min based on my turrents. Hit clays easy enough but missed a gong twice as big. Figures...

These bullets do give quite a smack when they hit. I am sure their hunting bullet construction helps. But, the retained vel may be just that much higher to cause a higher energy impact.

I certainly would not hesitate on deer out to 600yds and possibly up to 800yds. Will shoot the steel gongs that far to find out and compare impact craters.

Dave, from what I read, the MOA are higher then was needed. I am sure that Matt can confirm.

Simply, these SST's shoot flatter then present match HP bullets. Results will vary due to barrel, etc but if they can fly 1, 2, or whatever MOA flatter, that is significant.

As I said before, the absolute BC will be left to those who can generate more accurate numbers then me. But I am now convinced of the higher BC, no matter what or how much more.

It is an improvement...

Jerry

 

[milanuk]

Dang it. You guys are killin' me. Here I go and win a stage at an area tactical match and was planning on using my gift certificate for some Lapua 139 Scenars. Now I'm going to have to order some Hornady SSTs as well. <snort> Wouldn't that just bake their noodles, shooting a non-.30 cal *hunting* bullet at their match next year

Tried finding them locally, nobody stocks them.

I just gotta see if these things live up to the hype.

Monte

 

[Matt27]

Jerry, Yes those numbers are higher than they showed simply for the fact that i was shooting into a 10-15 mph head wind and when the wind would switch to 12:30 or 1:00 they hit higher. The sst's hit higher than the 139's.All the steel targets had a 12" center painted white. There wasn't anything scientific about the shooting. I just compared impact points with how many Moa it took to get their between the bullets.With the same Moa to get to all the ranges the SST's were hitting higher than the 139's but all were in the center aiming point.

From shooting i would guess ,like you, the SST's are higher than the 139's. I will try and get to the range this weekend and test some more. Have to find some more Ramshot hunter powder though.

I do think the construction of the SST's is far better for a bullet than the scenar. All our steel targets are out of T-1. From 500 out to 1000 the SST's left a bigger impact than the 139's. At 1000 you could tell where the 139's hit but didn't leave any noticable mark of where point of impact was. Now the SST's left a noticable impact point. In the middle of impact there was a silver spot twice the size of bullet diameter. Definately hit and transfered better as was the Ringing from impact heard.

I wish Mike Rock would get my 30" barrel shipped to me. I should be able to get 3000fps or close hopefully with his barrel. I already am pushing 2800 with my 24" factory sporter. I don't have any signs of pressure and my brass has been loaded 8 times or more.

 

[Matt27]

Jerry

Forgot to ask, but i am sure you have. Have you checked all your click adjustments? Did you run 30 moa and see what total inches were? Would be interesting to see. I found my 1/8min clicks were more than a true 1/8 min. Doesn't the Elite 4200 have 1/4min clicks? Would like to see if you could get actual click value and then calculate what the true drop is with your scope to compare numbers.

 

[milanuk]

Matt,

What cartridge is your new 30" barrel for? I'm running a 6.5-08, and while I've came close to 3k w/ a 30" barrel, the pressure was a little high. 2800-2850 so far seems a more reasonable max, unfortunately. If you can get more, let me know how!

Monte

 

[Mysticplayer]

matt, be careful if trying to get 3000fps out of a 308 case. That requires some pretty fancy dancing with the pressure gods. Go with a bigger case.

The testing I did with my scope was during the sight in. Adjustments agreed with the amounts needed to bring sighting shots into target. Have also played with shooting the box and it shot within the accuracy of the shooter/rifle. As they say, close enough for gov't work.

The elevation was very close if not on 1/8" per click. The windage was more like 1/4" but that is not important here.

From what you have said, sounds like the SST's are hitting 1 to 3 MOA higher. That's significant and about what I would have suspected. Run that through a ballistics program and you will get some very interesting results. BC's are going to calculate well over 0.6, probably more like 0.8 or 0.9.

For hunting, the added security of the hunting construction ensures better on game performance. Would also be a bonus for those silhouette shooting. More dwell on those heavy steel targets.

A lightly constructed bullet will always show less denting on a steel gong even if impact ballistics are the same. More impact energy is lost as the bullet fragments.

I am very happy with the SST's and use them whenever I can. The only place I use the MK now is the 240gr and 300gr in my RUM's. Nothing else even comes close. Now that Sierra is getting out of the 240 bullet, I am sad.

Jerry

 

[Matt27]

Jerry & Milanuk

I will have a 30" Mike Rock barrel for my .260(6.5-08). 308 Lapua brass necked down. With speaking with mike for quite awhile about his barrels he said people are getting 75-100fps more with his barrel at the same barrel length or 2" less with his equals the same velocity as a 2" longer barrel.

Now i am not dead set on 3000 and am not going to blow myself up or try for that speed and ruin brass in 2 firings. Like i said i am getting 2800fps with my 24" barrel now and my brass has been loaded 8times now.Now add 75-100fps more i am at 2900 and then add 6 more inches of barrel length. Mike also thought i would be able to achieve the 3000 mark. It would be great to get there but if not 2900 is not out of the relm and probably will be able to use less powder to achieve that speed.

I am also not loading to fit the Magazine. Single shooting. My overall for the 139's is 2.880" and for the 140's is 2.905". Both the base of the bullets are at the same spot when loaded. Right at the body and shoulder juncture.

 

[milanuk]

Mike,

Well, this is a little bit of BTDT (been there done that) for me. When I got my rifle barreled, the main reason I went w/ a 30" is that a screamer of a deal fell in my lap. $300 total for a couple sets of dies, about $150 worth of Lapua brass, about $100 worth of bullets, *and* the barrel (takeoff from a switch barrel after 600rds -- the guy liked the other barrel too much to use this one any). Otherwise I probably would have gone w/ a 26-27" as that is more 'normal' for the game I'm playing in.

I kept digging up all this load data on the 'Net, most of it w/ no velocities listed. The loads shot well, and so the shooters didn't really care if it was going 2650 or 2850. The few I did get speeds for showed such a huge variance it wasn't even funny. Either there was some 'slow' / 'fast' barrel stuff going on, or some decidedly different takes on how much pressure sign was 'too much'.

Figured that since I had a 30" barrel, and almost all the speeds I was finding were 2800 max from a 26" barrel for a 139-142gr, or 3150 for a 120-123gr, I should be able to hit 2850-2900 easy for the 140's and 3200-3250 for the 123's.

I've pretty much ran into a wall w/ the 123's. Pressure signs start getting awful hairy around 3150-3175. A part of that was a loading error on my part (seating depth), but since then I've spoke w/ some people w/ a lot more time behind a .260 than I and it appears I was pretty much hitting the limit. I may try some different powders just to see what I can see, but I'm not holding my breath. 3050-3100 is pretty competitive as is, and a lot easier on the cases.

For the 140-142gr bullets... I got up to 2940fps w/ a 142gr SMK, which is supposed to be a tad slower than some other bullets just due to a longer bearing surface. Pressures were getting pretty sticky (I'm a card-carrying member of the sticky-bolt club in my varmint rifles, but for my competition guns I tend to back off a tad) even w/ a extended bolt handle for extra leverage. 2800-2850 I can do w/o any problems, and after reviewing the ballistics for both, the extra speed buys me maybe one click on a 1/4 MOA sight (irons or scope) at 600, maybe 2 at 1K. Not sure thats worth it.

All that said, I recall one fellow who went from a 24" factory Savage .260 barrel to a 28" Lothar-Walther barrel and was getting some (comparatively) astronomical speed. Dunno about case life, etc. Basically decided if I wanted 6.5-284 speed (2900-3100fps) out of a 140gr 6.5mm bullet, I'd probably have to get a 6.5-284 to do it.

Anywho, more power to you if that barrel can really produce that much more speed.

 

[Matt27]

Milanuk

Are you the same guy over on accurate reloading about your 260? If you can get some Ramshot Hunter try it in your 260 with the 140 or 139 bullet. I use to use H-4350 with them but i am getting better speeds with Hunter.Ramshot's website lists 42 grains max charge with the 140's. Gregg Langelius(?) has a 260 and uses this powder also with good success. Work up to 42gr. but you might find out that you can go higher.Would be interested to see how you fair with your 30" barrel and the 140's.

I hope i can achieve 3000 but am not holding my breath. If accuracy is at 2900 or so then i will be happy. I will take accuracy over ruining brass any day but i really think i can get it. We will see. Just talked to Mike today and should have my barrel by the end of the week and then ship it off to Chris Matthews to be chambered.If that happens should be able to report back in a month or so. (fingers crossed)

 

[milanuk]

Matt,

Yep thats me (the one the only, the world's a safer place, all that good stuff).

I've got some Hunter, H4350, H4831SC, H1000, etc. I'm going to get going w/ some more testing, but it's a little hard to be motivated now after finding a load that shoots really well: 142gr SMK over 38.0gr Varget. 2715 out of a 30" barrel, but dang it shoots.

Monte

 

[winmagman]

Jerry and Matt
Where are you guys seating these bullets in relationship to the lands. Mine just showed up yesterday and I loaded up a ladder test tonight. Seated them .010 off the lands for a start. with any luck I'll get to the range Sunday.
Chris

 

[Matt27]

winmagman

That is where i am at .010 off the lands. I have kept that constant for my rifle with the 140's,139's and the 107's.My overall will not fit in the magazine as i single feed all my rifles.