6.5-06 vs. 6.5-284

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by blackco, Feb 1, 2007.

  1. blackco

    blackco Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    205
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    I have a pre-64 winchester -06 action and I am in the "dreaming" stage of planning what to do with it. I like the 6.5mm bullet and I think an easy wildcat on that bullet would be great. I've always figured a 6.5-06 would be a great idea but I sure do see a LOT MORE of 6.5-284s out there.

    What are the pros and cons of these two cartridges (or any others in that class). Thanks in advance for all of the great inputs I know I will get.
     
  2. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    987
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    when I was planning on a 6.5 I decided on a 6.5 Gibbs, it'll shoot with a 264 winny with less powder and its still a wildcat, thats what I was looking for. That and the fact it'll mirror the trajectory of my 7mm Allen mag to 800 yds.
    I'm just starting load developement and I've easily achieved 3200 fps with a 140 gr bullet. just a bit more work to fireform than the 6.5/06, but you get 3-4 grains more powder capacity. the 6.5-284 is an awesome round but seems like every wildcat I ever get becomes legitamised, the gibbs has been a wildcat since the 50's and will most likely stay that way.
    JS
    pic is L to R of a 6.5 gibbs which split at the shoulder during full power fireforming, a 270 win, a 6.5/06 (essentialy, a 270 necked to 6.5 in preparation of fireforming to 6.5 gibbs) a 139 gr lapua scenar, a loaded 270 win cartridgebeside a 6.5 gibbs
    [​IMG]
    The finished rifle
    [​IMG]
    RR
     

  3. two bears

    two bears Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2006
    I built a 6.5 -06 on a mauser 98 action VZ 24 last year.I did a little research on the 6.5 -284 and the 6.5 -06 for ballistics purposes. I found the 6.5-06 is pretty close to 6.5 -284 in ballistics. Also reading in the new Hornady reloading book and Nosler 's reloading book , its very easy to use a 25 -06 case to run thru a full length sizing die in 6.5 -06 to form the 6.5-06 case. My barrel length is 26 inches , 1 and 9 twist. This rifle is very accurate that at three hundred yards , I can place all my shots in the palm of my hand .The 25- 06 case is the way to go because after you resized it , you just have to load it. No trimming .
     
  4. 6BRBB

    6BRBB Active Member

    Messages:
    40
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2006
    Nice rifle and pictures James.

    Colby, My experience is only with the 6.5-284. The advantages I see is that brass (excellent from either Norma or Lapua) and dies from everyone are all ready to go. No fire forming required. It is easy to load, it was the first cartridge I hand-loading. Performace is very good. With a 30 inch barrel shooting 139g Scenars I easily achieve 3050 fps and can go a little higher (3150fps is achievable with moly). Stick to the Lapua brass if you are going to run it hot though. Mine works well with ADI AR2209 (H4350) – requiring (unusually) only 47-48 grains to reach 3000 fps levels. I stopped using Vihtavuori N560 due to bad combustion-zone erosion it was giving me (others have seen this too).

    I see that Swift now do their Sirocco in 130grain in 6.5 mm (claimed BC 0.57). Looks to be an interesting bullet.

    Good luck with your project!

    [​IMG]
    F-Class rig in 6.5-284.

    Glen H - New Zealand
     
  5. hank shaper

    hank shaper Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    48
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    I have a 6.5-06 on a 98 Mauser. It is a dream to load. It is not my long range shooter. I shoot 120gr. Sierra PH with 57.5 grs. of H4831. Groups 1/2 moa at 100 and 200. Very pleasant to shoot and smokes the deer and hogs.
    Hank
     
  6. Dave in Idaho

    Dave in Idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    68
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2003
    Colby,
    Like James Staggs I also have a 6.5 Gibbs. As he mentioned it is a little more work in the case forming area, (I use .270 Win Brass) but well worth the effort. I have a 28" 1-8" twist barrel and it will easily surpass 3200fps. It is also a hammer on game. After approximatley 2800 rounds it is time to shop for a new barrel. Great investment in my opinion. This round is not the norm but it does get the job done in convincing fashion. I have other rifles but after 10 years I cannot imagine not having a 6.5 Gibbs. If not a Gibbs then the 6.5-284 is great. But rather than a 6.5-06(standard) try the 6.5-06 Ackley Improved. Not perfect choices but then if they were perfect they would have "Gibbs" on the end.
    I tend to be slightly prejudiced in my choice of 6.5mm cartridges.
    Dave
     
  7. Head_Hunter123

    Head_Hunter123 Active Member

    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2007
    James- how would you compare the 6.5gibbs to a 6.5-06 ackley improved?
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    I personally would recommend the 6.5-06 AI over the 6.5-284 and the 6.5 Gibbs. Not really for any performance reasons but mainly because it is far easier to load then the Gibbs and no harder then the 6.5-284 and offers a significant boost in performance over the 6.5-284 and also just plain feeds smoother.

    With your controled round feed receiver, this may be an issue. Getting the short 6.5-284 to feed well in that Pre-64 receiver may take some doing, the 6.5-06 or 6.5-06 AI or 6.5 Gibbs will feed much smoother for you in your receiver.

    Performance wise, I can not tell you on the Gibbs, never loaded for one. Built alot of 6.5-06 AIs and can tell you the 140 gr class bullets can easily be driven to 3075 to 3100 fps in a 26" barrel with top end loads. I load my personal rifle to 3050 fps with the 140 A-Max and leave it there because its a legit 3/8 moa rifle with that bullet at that velocity.

    Another advantage of the 6.5-06 AI is how simple it is to load for. Here are the steps I use and recommend for forming 6.5-06 AI cases:

    1. Buy some 25-06 brass

    2. Prime that brass with a standard large rifle primer

    3. Throw a moderate to top end powder charge for a 6.5-06

    4. Seat a boattail 6.5mm bullet right into the unexpanded 25-06 case necks. No expanding is needed if you use a boattail bullet and debur the inside of the case mouth properly. You will not even feel a difference seating these slightly larger bullets in the 25-06 case.

    5. Shoot, out pops a 6.5-06 AI case ready to be trimmed to length and loaded with full pressure loads. I have also yet to have a 6.5-06 AI rifle not play with that 1/2 moa accuracy level shooting fireforming loads.

    No necking up needed in any way.

    For those that feel the 25-06 is not a quality case to use for long range shooting, if you like you can short cases by weight, you can also take a light truing cut on the case necks to uniform their thickness but I have not had a problem. Winchester 25-06 cases are plenty strong enough for high pressure loading. Much harder in the case head then Rem cases.

    You will get very close to a 264 Win Mag performance with this round and in a very easy to load for wildcat.

    There is nothing wrong with the Gibbs either, just a bit more involved when it comes to case forming and you need to understand what your doing when you size your cases to get the shoulder location correct before you fireform your cases.

    With the 6.5-06 AI in a rifle that is set up correctly, this is not an issue really.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    987
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    The guy who builds the rifles and the person who wrote the aricle both claim 3300-3350 fps with a 140 gr bullet, I've had mine to 3200 with 58 gr of re22 behind a 140 A-max just off the lands. forming cases is just basic fireforming, I use 270 win cases necked to 6.5, 11 gr unique/cow/tp. case capacity of H2o is 73.7 gr.
    I'm still in load developement, due to a minor accident involving a bandsaw, its been put on hold till things heal up.
    JS
     
  10. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,193
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2005
    I have an 6.5x284 and it shoots good but I am not getting anywhere close to that 3k. try like 2700 with the 140gr. class bullet. Someday when I have the time I will push it harder. It is a killing maching on deer and the one bear I shot. Someday I hope to have my 300rum built into a pack around 6.5x300ultra. I heard of people doing it I just haven't heard much on it. should be fast though.
     
  11. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    James,

    What barrel length you running on that Gibbs. I do not know for sure but I would have to say that anything anywhere near 3300 fps sounds pretty optomistic but then I have never tested the Gibbs.

    I can say that even in a 30" barrel the 6.5-06 AI will top out at 3200 fps with a 140 gr class bullet.

    It is pretty common for gunsmiths to inflate the projected velocity of a round they are chambering, guess thats just human nature. I can not tell you how many customers I have had to deprogram on the 257 STW because they read some article by a gunsmith named Ferguson down in TX or somewhere like that that supposedly invented the 257 Hot Tamale which is nothing but a 257 STW which was around long before him.

    He reported for years that this chambering would get you 4100 fps with a 100 gr bullet in a 28" pipe. Alot of primer pockets were blown from guys thinking they could get this velocity level and for years Ferguson stood by his claims.

    I even personally called him on it about three years ago and his reply was that was what he was getting with his special chamber design.

    Well, talked to a customer a couple weeks ago that wanted an STW and he said he had talked to Ferguson about building one of his Hot Tamale rifles. Seems now Ferguson is still claiming 4100 fps with the 100 gr TSX bullet but now he is telling customers that you can only shoot your brass one time and then you have to throw it away!!!

    I am not saying your smith is doing this but what I am saying is that many smiths use velocity as a selling point far to often. I will admit I do it alot with my Allen Magnums but I will not post a projected velocity that I have not proven realistic and practical with decent case life.

    The velocity expectations that were given to you not only exceed anything the 6.5mm WSM or 264 Win Mag will get, they also match what a 6.5mm STW or my 6.5mm Allen Xpress wildcat will get with a 140 gr pill.

    Will be interesting to hear how your case life is and where you pressure out if you decide to push things higher then the 3200 fps level your at right now which personally I would feel would be about tops where you should be in a 30" barrel if that is the barrel length your using.

    Just curious and no flame intended in any way, just seems like alot of velocity for this size of round. Case design will go along way to getting you consistancy and long case life, concerning getting high velocity, there is really only one way to do it, just like with engines, cubic inches in the cylinders!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  12. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    987
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    kirby, this is with a 30" tube, this info came from the smith who built it and an article from varmit hunter magazine jan 1996 by daryl cassel entitled "the amazing 6.5 gibbs".
    Dont know butIve got 3200 from mine with 58 gr of re22, and have shot 60 gr with no pressure signs but it was too overcast to get a reading from the chrony.
    daryl claimed 62 gr was a great load in his but mine loosens pimer pockets too much for my liking at 62 gr.
    mine has a 29.5" kreiger 1/8.
    JS
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

    Messages:
    6,848
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2004
    Well, there is one thing about Mr. Cassel, If he said he got that velocity he probably did but he also cares very little about long case life.

    I remember talking to him several years back about his 338-416 Improved and he was just getting some amazing velocity numbers. He freely admitted he did not care of he only got one or two firings per case, he just wanted the performance!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Hell of a guy as well.

    He will also tell you straight up that case life will be very short at these velocities as you are seeing in your rifle.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  14. Ridge Runner

    Ridge Runner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    987
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2002
    well kirby, I just figured this was normal velocity for the gibbs, its the same case as the 6.5/06 AI, only with the shoulder moved foreward enough to give it a few more grains powder capacity. My cases started out as 270 win, after fireforming the neck length is .308".
    RR