6.5-06 Ackley or the 264 Win Mag

[RyanG]

Ok my mind is made up! I pulled the trigger and ordered the 264 win mag dies, new bolt head and go/no go gauges.... all but the dies are on back order. I will have some time to completely rebuild the bolt. Still waiting on an oversized bolt handle and action screws. Will order my recoil lug, barrel and rifle basix trigger on Wed! Thank you guys for all the input.

I ended up going with the 264 because I will be able to get the performance and "stuff" I need to reload for it. Maybe one of these days I will go with the 06. I know that the 06 would be a more efficient round but Im gonna build a TOY....

Again thanks for all the input.

Ryan

 

[jakelly]

Would you update this thread when you get your rifle built? I am interested in the SD and ES of your accuracy load. Thanks and I hope you love it.

 

[RT2506]

I think you made a wise choice. With the 06AI you would use up a tenth or more of your barrel life just fire forming your cases. I would suggest that you get a barrel as long as you can manage, at the least 26". I have a 264 Win mag with a Shilen #4 CM barrel that is 27 3/4" long on a Rem 700. I got the rifle in a deal from my buddy that just had the rifle made but ran into the old "I need money now" problem. It is a shooter with Retumbo powder and 130 gr Accubonds, 3350 fps. Kills white tail deer like lightening struck them. The barrel is a 9 twist so once I found the load with the 130 AB I stopped. Why shoot out the barrel seeing what else will shoot great when you already have found one load that works?
Let us know how things work out.

 

[jlamb]

I own two 6.5-06's. I'm getting really close to 264WM velocities; 3050fps with a 142SMK or 140gr Accubond. I don't really see the use of the AI due to the already good performance. Dies are also easy to get from Midway.

I'm not into belted magnums, just a personal choice.

 

[Trickymissfit]

I think you made a wise choice. With the 06AI you would use up a tenth or more of your barrel life just fire forming your cases. I would suggest that you get a barrel as long as you can manage, at the least 26". I have a 264 Win mag with a Shilen #4 CM barrel that is 27 3/4" long on a Rem 700. I got the rifle in a deal from my buddy that just had the rifle made but ran into the old "I need money now" problem. It is a shooter with Retumbo powder and 130 gr Accubonds, 3350 fps. Kills white tail deer like lightening struck them. The barrel is a 9 twist so once I found the load with the 130 AB I stopped. Why shoot out the barrel seeing what else will shoot great when you already have found one load that works?
Let us know how things work out.

but on the otherhand you get over twice the barrel life after fire forming. Let alone go thru the hoops when the belt expands on the mag case which means you get to buy another sizing die to fix that problem as well. Read what Hornaday has to say about the .264 mag during their load development (several barrels during load development)
gary

 

[Nomosendero]

Yes and I also remember they said that years ago & kept the basic data the same. About the first time they said that we also were warned about the Swift. Kinda funny, the 257Roy is more overbore, but not as many worried about that one.

Actually the 5th edition says the following: "We burned out several barrels in developing the first data for the 264." "Data" and load development are 2 diff. animals. With data, they need to find max with all powders listed, which is several times the amount of shooting needed to develop a "load." Hornady in supplying DATA for 1 weight bullet used 12 different powders for example. We can grab 2-3 powders & 3-4 bullets we want to try and find that LOAD pretty quick.

It took me about 30 shots to develop a 120BT load for Whitetails this last fall, took a good Riverbottom Buck, this summer I will try 130 Acc. bullets, 140 A-Max & 140 Berger and be done with it. Then it's some testing at the ranges I will use this rifle & it will last a lifetime. Then one of my boys will get it and they can use it for years, that is if hunting seasons are allowed. I believe barrel life is the least of our worries at this point.

I have lessor rounds for volume shooting, which I would have needed just as much to go along with a 6.5AI as I do for my 264.

Ryan, I think you will be happy with your choice!

 

[apexmtnman]

" Let alone go thru the hoops when the belt expands on the mag case which means you get to buy another sizing die to fix that problem as well."

I've been loading belted mag cases for over 40 years and never had to "buy another sizing die to fix that problem." You set up your sizing die the same as you would for any bottle neck cartridge, to bump the shoulder back a couple of thousandths and ignore the belt and everything is fine.
3200 fps plus with 140's out of a 26" barrel is very doable with the 264, my Rem 700 CDL does it, and my custom 28" Broughton can get 3280 fps with excellent brass life.
That being said I'm in the process of building a 6.5-06 Imp on a pre 64 action I found in a pawn shop and a 5r, 8 twist Kreiger barrel I had laying around. I thought it might be something to play with, if it shoots great I'll keep it if not it'll go down the road, but I won't part with my 264's.
Redding has some type S full length bushing dies for the 6.5-06 Imp, or at least they did about 2 months ago when I bought mine, if you wanted to go that route.

 

[jlamb]

Axe, it's good to know that the belted mags don't show any reloading issues. I keep considering another caliber to "mess with" and the belted mags come up.

What powder are you using in your 264?

 

[Trickymissfit]

" Let alone go thru the hoops when the belt expands on the mag case which means you get to buy another sizing die to fix that problem as well."

I've been loading belted mag cases for over 40 years and never had to "buy another sizing die to fix that problem." You set up your sizing die the same as you would for any bottle neck cartridge, to bump the shoulder back a couple of thousandths and ignore the belt and everything is fine.
3200 fps plus with 140's out of a 26" barrel is very doable with the 264, my Rem 700 CDL does it, and my custom 28" Broughton can get 3280 fps with excellent brass life.
That being said I'm in the process of building a 6.5-06 Imp on a pre 64 action I found in a pawn shop and a 5r, 8 twist Kreiger barrel I had laying around. I thought it might be something to play with, if it shoots great I'll keep it if not it'll go down the road, but I won't part with my 264's.
Redding has some type S full length bushing dies for the 6.5-06 Imp, or at least they did about 2 months ago when I bought mine, if you wanted to go that route.

all sizing dies with one exception will not resize a mag case just above the belt. If you load them hot you will eventually have to get one of Larry Willis' dies. I had to get one for my 270 mag, and I'm nowhere as hot as I could be. Just the nature of the beast, and you learn to deal with it.

The 257, 270, and 7mm WBY mags all use a lot of free bore, and the turbulance points are still inside the necks unlike the Winchester design. Their shoulder angle will figure out to be close to 45 degrees with a much longer neck length. A .257 mag necked upto 6.5 would probably have over double the throat life in a zero free bore throat.
gary

 

[apexmtnman]

Tricky
Your swelling belts are all on Weatherby (Norma) brass? I've had loads hot enough to loosen primer pockets in 2-3 firings on Win brass and never had to resize the belt. Norma brass is notoriously soft, I don't use it.
You keep telling me " A .257 mag necked upto 6.5 would probably have over double the throat life in a zero free bore throat." You would have to prove that one to me, I believe, like Speedy, that temperature and pressure erode throats not the so called "vortex of the flame". Show me a documented test of your theory and I'll believe, until then I'll remain a skeptic.
jlamb
I'm loading 68.5 gr of Retumbo, 140 Berger hunting VLD, WW cases, 215M primers, 68.5 is listed as max in Bergers new manual, you should start lower and work up.

 

[Shooter264]

I think you made a wise choice. With the 06AI you would use up a tenth or more of your barrel life just fire forming your cases. I would suggest that you get a barrel as long as you can manage, at the least 26". I have a 264 Win mag with a Shilen #4 CM barrel that is 27 3/4" long on a Rem 700. I got the rifle in a deal from my buddy that just had the rifle made but ran into the old "I need money now" problem. It is a shooter with Retumbo powder and 130 gr Accubonds, 3350 fps. Kills white tail deer like lightening struck them. The barrel is a 9 twist so once I found the load with the 130 AB I stopped. Why shoot out the barrel seeing what else will shoot great when you already have found one load that works?
Let us know how things work out.

If use Nosler 280AI brass there is no fire forming. Just bump shoulders back and trim necks and then you have 6.5-06 AI brass. My choice would def be the 06AI, but then I'm biased because own 3 of them!!

 

[Trickymissfit]

Tricky
Your swelling belts are all on Weatherby (Norma) brass? I've had loads hot enough to loosen primer pockets in 2-3 firings on Win brass and never had to resize the belt. Norma brass is notoriously soft, I don't use it.
You keep telling me " A .257 mag necked upto 6.5 would probably have over double the throat life in a zero free bore throat." You would have to prove that one to me, I believe, like Speedy, that temperature and pressure erode throats not the so called "vortex of the flame". Show me a documented test of your theory and I'll believe, until then I'll remain a skeptic.
jlamb
I'm loading 68.5 gr of Retumbo, 140 Berger hunting VLD, WW cases, 215M primers, 68.5 is listed as max in Bergers new manual, you should start lower and work up.

I'd have to dig out the boxes of brass I have, but yes most are Weatherby branded (Norma), but I think there are several boxes of Winchester and maybe one other. Might also be some Remington brass as well. I do know I have a couple boxes of either Federal or maybe Hornaday (like I said I have to look see). The brass (dosn't seem to matter which brand does need to go thru the Inovative tech die after about four firings, as it seems to expand between .0035 and .005" alittle above the belt. I made a set of gauges to check the expansion out of drill bushings in .001" steps. But really only use two of them. They are easier to use than a blade micrometer, and a lot quicker. Also awhile back I was given about 200 once fired 300 mag cases (all were factory loads from Federal and Remington). For the hell of it one day I checked them about .20" above the belt, and every case showed some expansion after the first firing. If memory is right the rifle was a Mod. 700 Remington. I just accept the fact that these cases will expand, and live with it.
gary

 

[apexmtnman]

Tricky
Bob Hagel years ago complained about Norma brass being too soft to load very hot in Weatherby loadings (Gun Loads and Ballistics for the American Hunter) so I've never been a fan. At the time he found Win brass to be the strongest so I've used it almost exclusively for my loads for years. I've loaded some brass 8-10 times on my 300 Win Mag before discarding and never had to do anything to them except run them through a full length die bumping the shoulder a couple of thousandths each time, maybe I'm just lucky. Hagel found that if he formed 300 Weatherby brass from Win 300 H&H brass he could load them quite a bit hotter than the factory Norma brass IRC.
jlamb
Sorry to hijack your thread, I really like my 264's and I bought a Redding type S Match die set #36127 from Sinclair with a .291 bushing IRC. I'm getting very little runout useing this setup, .003 or less, they're kinda spendy though.
CPG
I must like my 264's just as much because I also own 3, including a pre 64 Westerner that I don't shoot much anymore.

 

[Trickymissfit]

Tricky
Bob Hagel years ago complained about Norma brass being too soft to load very hot in Weatherby loadings (Gun Loads and Ballistics for the American Hunter) so I've never been a fan. At the time he found Win brass to be the strongest so I've used it almost exclusively for my loads for years. I've loaded some brass 8-10 times on my 300 Win Mag before discarding and never had to do anything to them except run them through a full length die bumping the shoulder a couple of thousandths each time, maybe I'm just lucky. Hagel found that if he formed 300 Weatherby brass from Win 300 H&H brass he could load them quite a bit hotter than the factory Norma brass IRC.
jlamb
Sorry to hijack your thread, I really like my 264's and I bought a Redding type S Match die set #36127 from Sinclair with a .291 bushing IRC. I'm getting very little runout useing this setup, .003 or less, they're kinda spendy though.
CPG
I must like my 264's just as much because I also own 3, including a pre 64 Westerner that I don't shoot much anymore.

I know about the Norma brass being softer, but as I said I also see it with at least one other brand. The Norma brass seems to group better if that matters much.
gary