5r rifled barrels

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 94Winchester, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. 94Winchester

    94Winchester Well-Known Member

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    I have been looking at barrels and was wondering what is the difference in performance and barrel life between 5r rifling and traditional rifling. Does 5r rifling live up to the hype?
     

  2. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    The ones I have been around are among the best shooters I have seen. I have one on order with Broughton right now.

    Jeff
     

  3. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    I recently built a rifle for a customer using a Broughton barrel w/ canted rifling on a Defiance 'Rebel"' short action. The Broughton barrel machined beautifully, a testimony to the quality of the S.S. they use to make those barrels. My customer e-mailed me a photo of a group late last week, an easy 1/2" even though it didn't have 100 rounds thru it yet. He had a match to shoot this past weekend over at Raton, I haven't talked to him yet so don't how he did. He had been shooting a 'trued' Rem. 700 SA w/ Shilen Select Match bbl. that I had built (both rifles chambered in .260 Rem.). The Shilen has a bit of wear in it and will still shoot 1/2 to 3/4". I have the rifle w/ the Shilen in the shop for threading the muzzle. I'm sure I'll get a report on the match, and velocity differences between the two rifles when he comes to pick-up the Rem. He keeps a very accurate round count thru these rifles. As the barrel wears I know I'll get some detailed reports from him. I think the quality of the steel used has alot to do with the accuracy. If it machined nicely when I threaded, chambered, and crowned it, it machined very well for the rifling process. Steel quality makes a difference, IMHO. Not really the info you asked for, canted rifling hasn't been a "gotta' have" in this part of the world so there's not alot of first hand info. Only the claims made.
     
  4. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    I found this statement on the Krieger website.

    The Obermeyer
    5-R™ style rifling is simply a different style of rifling that has a 'ramped' or angled transition from the groove to the land and back down from the land to the next groove. Our conventional 4 groove rifling has a nearly straight side to the land. The internet is full of information describing perceived benifits to the 5-R™ rifling over conventional styles, but most of this is comparing "apples to oranges" as they are usually comparing one manufacturers "non 5-R™" to a different manufacturers "5-R™" barrels. We have honestly seen no significant diferences between the two styles of rifling when comparing our barrels. We may have better information after this shooting season is over, and once we start getting feedback from competitive shooters trying it though.


    We do not expect any accuracy, barrel life, velocity, or other performance differences from our 5-R™ rifling than we do from our conventional 4 groove barrels.
     
  5. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Chas, thats interesting. Especially since the New 5C Broughton I have on order is going to replace the new (75 round) Kreiger 4 land I am taking off. What a waste of good bullets..:D I can't say for sure my problem was the barrel design. It could have been any number of things that caused the unacceptable accuracy, or lack of. But I do know I have bought my last barrel with 4 lands. That said, I fully believe any manufacturer can make a bad barrel. And I also believe if you get one that does not shoot, get a new barrel. I have beatin my last dead horse.

    Jeff gun)
     
  6. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    Broz, I have no opinion for or against as I've never owned either. I threw up Kriegers statement so 94 Winchester could get the view of one of the 5r barrel manufacturers perspective for what it's worth.:)
     
  7. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    I know Chas, and it is good info. I found it interesting because when I was having trouble, I made a call to Kreiger. The reason for the call was my concern of the 4 land barrel and how it was shooting. I was told they only make 4 land barrels and really did not get a lot of help offered. But since then, in the last few months, Kreiger has now started offering 5R barrels. Hmmm. I dont know, I have worn my brain out trying to figre what went wrong. But I do know if my new Broughton 5C shoots even close to my sons Broughton 5C, I will be a happy camper.

    Jeff
     
  8. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    I'd send that barrel back to Krieger if I thought it has 'problems'. At 75 rounds it's just getting broke in good. One could write a paragraph about an accuracy problem with a rifle but it would all be just speculation. There's alot of different things that are going to affect accuracy, not just the barrel. I'd have given Krieger a 'shot' at the problem before I gave up on a 'new' barrel.
     
  9. toader

    toader Well-Known Member

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    I have 2 Kiegers barrels on order - both will have 5R rifling!!!!!
     
  10. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Yes, many things can cause a problem like this. I drew my best conclusion and went that direction with it.

    I did give Kreiger a "shot" at the problem. That was the call I made. By the end of the onversation I could read the writing on the wall. Heck, I might be taking off an awesome accurae barrel. :D

    Jeff
     
  11. shortgrass

    shortgrass Well-Known Member

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    By 'give 'um a shot' , I mean send it back. I ordered a barrel for a customer about 3 weeks ago. Kriegers' phones are so busy I had to leave a voice mail so they could call me back so I could place the order! I would hope and expect that a barrel being returned would get alot more attention than a phone call when their phones are that busy. Can you imagine, just for a minute, what some of those calls must be like? Actions always speak louder than words.
     
  12. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with Shortgrass on this one. The Item is not shooting related, but demonstrates this example well enough I think. I had bought Courtlands top of the Line Fly line. It was Terrible!! Instead of calling them I wrote a letter and sent it and the fly line back to them. Now it was not a barrel to be sure but apples to apples it was this companies flagship product. Their prima-vera so to speak. You should have seen the service I got. Amazing. They contacted me the day it arrived and the next day had a new line out to me. Within a few days I went from completely dissatisfied junk line to premier fly line. I believe that it was because I sent it in rather than called it in.

    My letter went something like this. Hello my name is, I have used your products before with good success, this line is crap, it fails in this list of ways, i don't want it, you keep it, use it for R&D, please send me your bottom end line because it is better. sincerely, me.

    It got replaced with the new top of the line, line and I couldn't be more pleased with it.
     
  13. Broz

    Broz Well-Known Member

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    Ok, but compare this. What did it cost to install the new fishing line?


    I agree with you two 100%. But here is how I looked at it and I had to make a decision about the future of my rifle as time is a concern. As I stated, at the time of the call all they offered was 4 land rifling. I had concerns that the 4 land application may not be in my best interest after getting substandard accuracy. So even if they offered me a new one, I didn't want it. I had one and it didn't meet my expectations. They informed me the 4 land was fine for what I was doing and quote "this is how we make barrels". This was about 2 months ago. They didn't offer to inform me that they were getting ready to offer 5R barrels. Hmmm. Why? This was the reason I called, to discuss 4 vs 5 or 6 lands and my application. I am not trying to bash Kreiger, no, not at all. I have one of their barrels on a small cal and it shoots fine. Like I said before, in all fairness, anyone can make a bad barrel. Maybe I am taking off a good barrel. Maybe it is not even the barrel at fault. It is a new full custom build. It is completely apart and has been fully inspected again and again. I had to make a call to fix this rifle. My call was a new barrel and not one with 4 lands. Back to my first post, all the 5C and 5R 's I have been around were above normal custom barrel standards.

    If I knew for a fact it was the barrel and Kreigers fault I would seek reimbersment or replacement. But I won't know till I am done. It cost time and money to get a barrel in, get it properly installed, add a muzzle brake, brake it in, load development, compoenents, etc. . I chose not to go back with the same thing, I will soon know if I made the correct call.

    Jeff
     
  14. Firecat

    Firecat Well-Known Member

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    Sincerely, I hope that you find your decision works for you and I am sure that it will. I do know that there must be something to the 5 rifling method that works. Otherwise why would they be using them on Marine sniper rifles? Not only this but several makers are switching over to 5r. Thompson Center, Sako, Tikka, and others. I would guess that you are making a good choice. I am sure that by the time that you made your decision that the frustration was at an all time high.

    Keep us posted. I would be interested to know what you find out.