585 HE -- Barrels of Cases --

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by hubel458, Oct 9, 2013.

  1. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    585 HE --- Super Strong --

    If you've followed our work in the 12ga FH thread you've seen
    our 585 HE cartridge and its development. We have barrels
    of cases and more coming.

    We have put it in all kinds of guns, and tested it with 650gr
    bullet over 3000 fps as heavy load to test the brass, and also
    for lighter game like deer and hogs and target fun we found
    that some of 440gr- 540gr 58cal Minie bullets work great

    First picture shows it next to 505 Gibbs, it has same overall
    loaded length as a Gibbs. Holds up to 190gr ball powder.

    Next pic is a barrel of cases

    Third representative of types of guns we have it in.Ed

    [​IMG].

    [​IMG].

    [​IMG].
     
  2. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    We get concerns about recoil. Guns are weighted a little, thick pads,
    can be ported, use moderate loads, they shoot nice...And moderate
    loads still much faster than 577NE. And can be had without costing a
    years pay. Most local users(only 1 in 10000 hunters go Africa) can
    shoot lighter .585 Minie bullets, which load for about 95 cents each,
    once you have cases. Folks can get 100 cases, dies, barrel
    to put in something for 750 bucks..Ed
     

  3. lazylabs

    lazylabs Well-Known Member

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    Will that fit in a #1?
     
  4. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is perfect for a #1. The few #1s ever done in 577, they had
    to relieve metal behind the action shoulders that breach block
    rests against because of rim. Ours don't have to and the #1s
    extractors I've seen work better with belted than rimmed.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  5. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Case doesn't need special made shellholder, number 31 RCBS fits fine.
    It is a straight belted case that holds up to 190gr of doublebase powder.
    Powder need not be like charcoal, IE, really slow powder, as necked
    needs. So it has effiencies of 37-39%, where necked cases are
    about 29%. Here is one done in a Savage..

    [​IMG]

    The loads tested at high pressures about 65,000 psi, when extracting, the
    weight of the bolt after opening pulled cases out. We've fired moderate
    loads in singleshots that we mono-blocked barrels into and the cases fall
    out after firing. Here are couple a nice singles with 585HE in them.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Cases are made super strong, in the same factory run as the super
    high pressure Cheytac cases. The base of our case is same size ahead of
    belt as Cheytac/Gibbs bases. Done with same cups and draws, just uses
    a different header, bunter, and sizer. Here is picture of the one we made
    and the factory one sectioned showing the strong built inside corners.
    These are not balloon head junk cases.

    [​IMG]

    We and CH4D have die sets, Manson makes reamers, and we have some.
    Reamer specs all set and the chambers made with them, the cases
    extract at the highest pressures.
    Here is pic of one we set with 585HE in a Greener GP.Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  6. laserflat

    laserflat Well-Known Member

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    What is the parent case? If there is one...

    Looks like itd be a perfect case to neck down to .375 and have a LR hammer. Probably get more MV out of that than a .375 CT.
     
  7. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    I made first ones from straight, long, basic Nyati brass,
    This was brass that had not been trimmed so I was able
    to make a long straight belted case. There was a Nyati clone
    made by GMA that I got basic cases for also.

    The base of case ahead of the belt is same size as Cheytac
    and Gibbs, so Bertram was able to make cases from same brass cups
    and use the same tools for the case draws and just had to use
    different belted header to finish cases at the end of the process.
    Works out well as he doing these cups and draws steady. Ed
     
  8. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    WE get asked about whether the 585HE is a DD due to being
    over 50 cal, and no it is not, as we applied for and got a
    sporting cartridge exemption few years ago.

    First picture is base view of cases new and old. On the left is
    4 new ones that come with no headstamp that I stamped,
    and the 6 new ones in the middle has a 585 stamp.
    We got a barrel full without stamp and guys can wildcat
    them and put their own stamp on..

    Second is side view with some in # 31 holders.No special
    holders needed. .Notice how uniform belts are on the new
    shiny ones. Dark ones are ones I made years ago.

    Third is one with AP bore rider bullet in with others
    behind. Maybe make a great long range target cartridge.
    Got a guy setting up one with long heavy barrel for that.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of 585HE with 700gr HP CEB bullet and 750 gr
    wide meplat CEB bullet..Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  9. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    In the pictures above you see the older first cases I made from Nyati
    cases and other cases that were Nyati clones. These were straight basic,
    long, untrimed cases, so I could get the longer case we wanted.

    We get asked about the process of doing it and here is picture sketch
    showing original case, a case with the start of a belt step, and finally
    a case after it is swaged and sized. Note the belt diameter ends up the
    same as the base diameter of the original brass. These cases we made
    years ago was how we got the 585HE started and tested and some guns
    done. This process can only work with original cases that have a thick
    corner radius to leave plenty of thickness ahead of the belt. In doing this
    process with different wildcats we have found cases that wouldn't work.

    [​IMG]

    Now these cases have a diameter that works with regular bolt guns,
    without extreme machining on the bolt, as opposed to 577NE and Trex.
    Here is picture of a case held in a Ruger bolt, for example..

    [​IMG]

    And our case is large enough capacity to get the power, without being an
    oversize, soft case. Thicksided cases relative to size of the case are much
    harder to harden the heads and the lower body back up to proper strength.
    because of the extreme annealling needed, in the drawing
    and heading operations in the manufacturing process.
    Our cases are made with same cups and draws as the ultra high pressure
    Cheytac cases, and our real high pressure tests show they perform with
    no extraction problems.

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of a O/U I had top barrel sleeved with smooth tube, and use
    the 585HE in it with lightweight, hollowbase Minie bullets. Shoots about as
    accurate as foster slugs in a 12ga. Bottom barrel is 3.5" 12ga smooth.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Some more info- For guys in other countries you can get cases
    from Bertram in Australia. I can send die sets. There is a guy
    in AUS that has a reamer I sent him.

    We have experimented with black powder type of loads and the
    Minie bullets, The Minies we use are the ones measuring .585".
    Also for reduced loads with lesser amounts of powder we found
    that 24ga wads work perfect in the case, like in this picture.

    [​IMG]

    WE did couple guns in smooth barrel to test hollowbase Minies.
    Found that they work for shot in our case. Holds 3/4 oz of shot.
    Put a 24ga card on top and glue it in.

    [​IMG]

    We even got one in good ole NEF, with a 585 barrel monoblocked
    into it and gun weighted, with thick pad. Guy in TX got one also
    and there is video on ytube-- URL below-- Ed

    [​IMG]



    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HypaUdwQGAc]Shooting my .585 Hubel Express - YouTube[/ame]
     
  11. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    We have a guy who is working toward getting the 585HE cases into
    Canada, for guys there to be able to get them from him..

    Our case works for black powder type of loads using .585" Minie
    Bullets also. Here is picture sectioned case with 4 Pyrodex 54 cal
    pellets stacked behind a 440 gr Minie Bullet.Goes over 2500.
    Can be loaded with 3 pellets and 24ga cushion wad.

    [​IMG]

    Here is an innovation in a 585HE Falling Block we did. It's in a
    one piece thumbhole rifle stock. Nice to handle and shoots heavy
    loads a comfortable as a weighted bolt action gun. FBW brand.

    [​IMG]

    Here is a bunch of barrels we have, the wrapped ones are slow
    twist just for guys doing 585HE guns to use Minie bullets for
    deer, hogs, target, and plain ole fun Using black or smokeless.

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture of one being done by a guy on a big Enfield with a
    nice figured Walnut stock. It is weighted and has a thick pad.
    Being done African style with thick barrel and integral front sight.
    You can see a bunch cases in background shelf.--Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  12. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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    Hooray the first batch 585 barrels from McGowen has got here, more
    will be built.They are the regular 1 to 20 twist barrels, and we have 14
    that are profiled and polished, and 3 others that are straight blanks,
    1 to 20 twist. And 6 slow twist barrel blanks for guys doing mainly
    Minie bullet guns, and bunch smoothbore blanks...Pics soon.

    Here are couple more pictures of the gun guy is doing with nice stock.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Here is picture, 585 FBW falling block with Hogue Knoxx Compstock.
    Helps reduce recoil in this lighter gun. Ed

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Sling

    Sling Well-Known Member

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    Since you had Bertram make your brass, do you have their contact info? I can`t find an email directly to them.
     
  14. hubel458

    hubel458 Well-Known Member

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