4350/4831 Mixed in same can - super powder?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Make_mine_a_magnum, Jul 5, 2003.

  1. Make_mine_a_magnum

    Make_mine_a_magnum Member

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    I had a half can of each, IMR 4350 & IMR 4831, and combined them. Trying to make a high energy powder, similar to those loads that Hornady & Federal have made. I mixed the two types well, and it is a 50/50 blend. My thinking is by following 4831 data, the hotter 4350 kernals will boost velocity, and give me more range.

    Will it work? Could there be drawbacks to my Savage tactical rifle by using these loads for an extended period?
     
  2. BlueMoon

    BlueMoon Member

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    [​IMG]
    Biggest problem I see is keeping the 50/50 mix the same all the way down to the bottom of the can.

    I read that the high energy loads were made by super compressing powder in a 5 or 6 step method that they have machinery for. BM
     

  3. Ian M

    Ian M Well-Known Member

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    I am not a powder expert or ballistician but I think you are treading on thin ice. I would stick with what the factory puts into each can. They have spent a lot of time and money trying to keep the burning rates uniform, why mess with that.

    We simply cannot duplicate the HE ammo, nor can we match some other factory loads because the factory uses powder that we don't have access to. The HE stuff is very good and shoots well, only problem is it is not cheap.

    The High Energy stuff is supposed to be a combination of a powder that we cannot get (compressable powder from Australia or someplace overseas I believe) and a loading technique where they dump in a portion, compress hell out of it, dump in some more and compress and then dump in a final dose and more compressing. Notice there is no small caliber high energy loads, because the ram that is compressing the powder would be too small, would not work correctly. I have not done this but have heard that if you dump out the powder from a HE load you cannot get it back into the case.

    Mixing powders is probably an invite to disaster, I could think of lots of faster powders that would give 4831 a hell of a kickstart but the result would be nasty.
     
  4. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    some South African reloader use duplex load to try to find a solution to the miss of burning rate in Sochem powder range

    RULE 1 : never mix in can but alawys load case by case the faster powder first and the slower after

    RULE 2 : always use a good old mauser M98 with a used barrel firing with a rope ( long rope ) to make the first shoots ( 10 shots raw to check velocity dev ) and carefulle check pressure sign after and before cartridge shake !!!

    some powders mix are very hard for the barrel , best is to use regular surplus ball powder at max load , when you reach max load with ball powder you get usually hight velocity at hight pressure but slower pressure than the same velocity with tubular .

    good shooting

    DAN TEC
     
  5. J Schulze

    J Schulze Well-Known Member

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    If you are not a big powder company dont try it. What you think may be a 50/50 mix could be 90/10 mix and you could blow the bolt through your head. if you want HE powder use N500 series
     
  6. Make_mine_a_magnum

    Make_mine_a_magnum Member

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    Ok, so it sounds a little sketchy. I don't really want to throw this pound of powder out, so is it still safe to load??

    What if I follow 4350 data, wouldn't a mix of 4350/4831 make slightly lower pressure than regular 4350, due to the slower 4831 kernals? I'll just use this for my plinking loads.
     
  7. J Schulze

    J Schulze Well-Known Member

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    if they are not mixed shoot them if they are mixed BURN THEM
     
  8. MachV

    MachV Well-Known Member

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    To give you some reference I USE to reload 223s with scrap powder(leftover,spilled and or pulled),The problem is keeping it mixed well and you can get a surprize now and then and it aint a pleseant one,even loading slow burning powders in a small case they behaved badly and velosities were all over the place & when one stuck the bolt all where pulled and spread on garden.
    If you were to load them like DANTEC discribed it might work better than the powders individualy but mixing them the way you did it is bad JUJU=its now firtilizer use it acordingly
    CJ
     
  9. Make_mine_a_magnum

    Make_mine_a_magnum Member

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    They are already mixed. Would they really make dangerous pressures, even if I back off 4350 data by 2 or 3 grains?

    [ 07-05-2003: Message edited by: Make_mine_a_magnum ]
     
  10. MAX

    MAX Well-Known Member

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    I sincerely suggest you use it for lawn fertilizer. If you decide to do your own research get a long string, an empty range and a bit of cover betwixt you and your bomb. The issues at hand regarding powder burn rates are so completely misunderstood by hand loaders it is amazing. 1) the burn rate of your two powders are probably very similar. 2) The 'quickness' is not. 3) what results from mixing them is totally beyond prognostication. 4) see my first sentence.
     
  11. J Schulze

    J Schulze Well-Known Member

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    May you rest in peice. I weap not for stupidity

    [ 07-05-2003: Message edited by: J Schulze ]
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It is a lot like base jumping.....Bona Fortuna... [​IMG]
     
  13. Bluebeemer

    Bluebeemer Well-Known Member

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    Base jumping scares the hell out of me, but it would be safer than mixing powders together! Neutralize it, spread it over your garden, whatever, but I wouldn't recommend loading with it.
     
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    make-mine-a-magnum,you must have been around wearing your I,m stupid sign and thats why they went ahead a printed do not mix powders on the cans and in reloading handooks. Please see pages 71 and 72 of horndy handbook vol. 1 5th edition. It says at the top of the page that you need to work very hard to get it trouble reloading and Almost all reloaders are safe cautious, sensible people to start with. Well that solves your problems you my friend are not a RELOADER. HERE'S YOUR SIGN


    I"M NOT A RELOADER