35 Whelen AI vs. 358 Hawk

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Bull45cal., Jul 15, 2009.

  1. Bull45cal.

    Bull45cal. Well-Known Member

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    So what do you guys think is better? I want to rebarrel my Savage long action with something fitting for a long action. The rifle was originally .30-06, and I want to do the best conversion with the least amount of work. I'm looking at the 35 Whelen AI because it is cheaper to get a barrel and dies for. Anyone compaired these cartridges before?
     
  2. 3006savage

    3006savage Well-Known Member

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    I know nothing of the Hawk and that tells me to pick the whelen. I really like the whelen and its efficiency so I am very biased. Its terminal performance is exceptional for the case size. The whelen with a 280 grain aframe is as good as it gets for short to medium range big/dangerous north american game. The 225 grain accubond at 2800 fps is actually pretty flat for a pumpkin launcher like the whelen and good for elk at 400 plus yards.
     

  3. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I agree the 35 whelen imp is a very good overlooked round. I have it and a 35 gibbs. Both are very good elk and bear rounds. I have never heard of a 358 hawk. What is it?
     
  4. Bull45cal.

    Bull45cal. Well-Known Member

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    Long Time Long Ranger,

    As best as I can tell, the 358 Hawk is another version of the 35 Whelen AI. It seems to be a wilcat from the .30-06 case. I can't find the case drawings on it. Z-hat (www.z-hat.com ) is the one that builds the whole line of "Hawk" cartridges. It seems to get a little bit more velocity (50 fps or so) than the 35 Whelen AI (Imp). I didn't know if any of the big bore guys where using it.
     
  5. 3006savage

    3006savage Well-Known Member

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    After looking at the case design on the website I would be sceptical of any gains over the 35 Whelen AI. The hawk appears to have the same neck length as the AI. With the near parallel taper of the AI and 40 deg shoulder the AI is already getting nearly every bit of capacity that case has to offer. There is a Gibbs line that shortens the neck and lengthens the case which offers some additional capacity but even with that case much of the capacity is not actually usable because the short neck results in more case intrusion by the bullets if the OALs are the same.
     
  6. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info on the hawk. I would stick to the AI or the gibbs. They are both proven rounds with reloading components easily available. My gibbs gets a few more fps than the AI. That comes at a cost. The gibbs neck is near .25 inches long with a .358 hole in it. This is definitely all you can get out of an '06 case if you want the mostest. A good rule of thumb is to not let the caliber diameter exceed the neck length for best performance. I like the gibbs line up to the 338. The 358 is a mighty big hole for such a short neck. Using the JRS design is better for this one if you want all you can get out of a 35 caliber on an '06 bolt face. It uses the 280 case which is just a bit longer and gives you a little more neck along with the extra powder capacity.
     
  7. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    I have a standard 35 whelen, made up from an old 700 ADL, with a 35 whelen takeoff cdL barrel fitted onto it. I'm shooting the 225gr TSX at 2575fps with varget. The recoil on this relatively light rifle is "stout" but not unbearable. Nothing special on the brass, just 30-06 brass through a 35 whelen FL die. The necks are a bit shorter than spec but does not seem to matter.

    Last weekend I shot 2 hogs in a vineyard. One was shot up close in the neck - it destroyed about 4" of spine and the hog just fell over feet up. The 2nd was around 150yd, shot broadside, and only made it 2 rows over. Unfortunately, we went back to recover him 1 hour later and the coyotes had literally torn it apart.

    I also shot a small coyote in the shoulder at 150 yds and it spun him around dead without completely exploding the lildog. I'm not sure the bullet really opened up but hey, it worked.

    Bottom line here is that I am completely happy with this cartridge and rifle. The gun was pretty ugly (rusty & pitted barrel) when I got it, but the gunsmith cleaned it up pretty well and the new takeoff CDL barrel made it look a bit nicer. I'm not concerned about scratching it up like when I used to hog hunt with my win model 70 featherweight (beautiful) rifle.

    I'm sure You won't be disappointed with the whelen in any form...
     
  8. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    If anyone needs any 35 cal 225 grain nosler ballistic tips I am way over stocked with them and need to sale some. They are the ones marked 35 Whelen on the box. They are very accurate and have excellent performance on game. I use them in all my 35 cals from the whelen to my 358-378 wby's and have taken mostly bear and elk with them. I have about 20 boxes and only need about ten so I will ship them for 14.50 per box if anyone wants some. This is way under dealer price.
     
  9. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    Long ranger, I sent you a PM.
     
  10. Leffield

    Leffield New Member

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    All kind folks here,

    I acquired a H&R RMEF single shot in 35 Whelen. I was looking at having a 35 Whelen A.I. built but had to delay this and then ran across the H&R. I took it to my gunsmith and asked if it was possible to bump the single shot out to the A I dimensions. On a bolt rifle it would be simple to shorten the breech end of the barrel and then recut the chamber. This isn't feasible with the single shot because of the mono block. He suggested the 358 Scovill. I was also looking at the 35 Gibbs. I want to stay with a 30-06 based cartridge but want something that hits like Thor's hammer. Any wisdom y'all might chose to share ?
     
  11. loaders_loft

    loaders_loft Well-Known Member

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    The 35 whelen does hit like Thor's hammer all by itself. No improvements needed. I have two loads. A 225 tsx at 2575fps and a 225 ballistic tip at 2750fps. Both have killed game with extreme severity! Varget is the powder on both loads. The whelen is no joke, extremely powerful killer. From a huge buffalo bull to hogs, deer, coyotes and Even cottontails, it does it all. We call mine the bone crusher. ..
     
  12. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    +1 my whelen is a ruger 77 hawkeye tossing 220 speer fp's at 2700 fps with rl15. Hard hitting rifle for what it is. Only my 338 and 375 really hit harder.