.338SIN and 6.5SIN Questions and Thanks!

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by benchracer, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    Before I get to my questions, thanks and gratitude are in order for Devin Sinner of Sinarms and LTLR for putting forth the time and effort to develop and test what look to me to be a very promising family of wildcat cartridges. I have followed the .338SIN development with great interest and the discussion has been very educational!

    Since I first joined this site, I have payed close attention to LTLR's posts and have benefited greatly from his experience. In particular, LTLR has been responsible for turning my understanding of the practical long range ballistics of the .338 class cartridges on its head. Because of that, his comments on the .338SIN have really grabbed my attention. I am sold on the concept and am in the planning stages of a rifle build in this cartridge on a Ruger or commercial mauser action. Here are my questions:

    1. What, exactly, do I need in the way of dies/case prep equipment to form brass and reload for this cartridge? Sources, part #'s, and case forming instructions would be very useful. I have never worked with a wildcat cartridge, so this would be a completely new world for me.

    2. Does Sinarms intend to make the SIN cartridges proprietary or will the necessary chamber reamers be available for purchase?

    3. What will be available from Sinarms for the .338 and 6.5SIN in terms of supplies and gunsmithing services? When are these things expected to be available?

    I realize that these things are still in the development stage and that solid answers to my questions may not be available for awhile yet. I just want to start the process of getting concrete enough answers to these questions to develop a realistic build plan and start saving my money.

    I am watching these developments with great interest and can't wait to get in the SIN game!
     
  2. sinarms

    sinarms Well-Known Member

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    benchracer, thank you for interest in the Sin cartridges. The 338 Sin Reamer is available from PT&G, it is a free for all design at least for right now. I am the only one that I know of that has the reamers. The 6.5 Sin design will be going to PT&G this week sometime. 330 Dakota brass is available from me or many other places. LTLR has the best method of forming brass, necking 330 Dakota up to 35 cal and then back down to 338 to give a false shoulder to fire form against and then just fire form. I might get into hydro forming brass to give 98% capacity. I am a full service shop so if you are wanting a build I can do that. And since you posted that you wanted to build of a ruger or mauser rifle these pics are for you

    338 Sin #4

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

  3. Senderofan

    Senderofan Well-Known Member

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    Sin-Arms can also make you a FL reloading die and make recommendations on the other things you'll need...as he said...he's a full service shop.

    Wayne
     
  4. benchracer

    benchracer Well-Known Member

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    If I understand correctly, I would start with 330 Dakota brass, run it through a .35 cal neck size die (a Lee Collet Die, for example), then a .338 cal neck size die to form a false shoulder. After that, fire form the brass.

    I am guessing that the brass would need to be trimmed to length following the fire forming. Is that correct?

    In looking for a base gun for my build, what am I looking for in order to get an action with the proper feed geometry? Am I looking for something in a standard magnum cartridge? If I have an action with a magnum bolt face, would it still need bolt face modifications? In general, are there any special considerations that I need to be aware of that might affect my choice of a donor action for this build?

    Where the 6.5 Sin is concerned, I currently have a Ruger 77MkII with a Krieger barrel in 6.5-284 Norma. Would it be a practical idea to convert this rifle by rechambering the barrel, changing the follower, and opening up the bolt face?

    Sinarms, that is a gorgeous rifle! Thanks for the pics!

    Thanks for the responses, fellas. I appreciate the advice.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2011
  5. joe0121

    joe0121 Well-Known Member

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    I am very interested in the thread. My stevens .308 build might turn into a stevens .338 build as well.
     
  6. Senderofan

    Senderofan Well-Known Member

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    I think you've basically got the brass preparation correct. I do the same process, creating a false shoulder, before fire forming my 6mm Dasher. I think, the Sin, with its improved shoulder....will afford more stability in the brass...hopefully shouldn't have to trim it much after the false shoulder creation or fire forming.

    As far as the base gun you start off with...I'm sure it would save time and $$ if a guy starts off with a long action that has a magnum bolt face. Mine is a Standard bolt face, long action Remington....used to be a .25-06. The beauty / genius is....you don't need an exotic action. The Ruger that Sin-Arms posted is absolutely stunning!! Sin-arms designed the round to fit in the magazines of the more common long actions out there...Savage, Ruger, Tikka, Remington, Winchester....take your pick.

    BTW, my bolt face will be opened up and a new extractor installed.

    Good Luck,

    Wayne

    P.S.

    I'm learning about this amazing round with the rest of y'all....I'm just lucky enough to have met with Sin-Arms a couple of times...and deliver my project rifle to him in person. Great guy to work with...110% confidence in the project. Reading about the success in load creation and accuracy results form LTLR and Sin-Arms...cranks up my enthusiasm for the build.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  7. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    You do not need to trim the brass after forming. The Dakota brass is slightly shorter so it works out. So far I have had no problem using the Dakota brass. The only thing is doing a very good job seating the bullets with the CE 225 since they are seated out so far. It can create bullet run out if your not careful. Once you get that right they shoot great. Using the Dakota brass is like loading for the Gibbs cartridges which I have all of those so I am accustomed to it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2011
  8. Bloodworks

    Bloodworks Member

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    What's up with the misplaced rings on the '77?
     
  9. sinarms

    sinarms Well-Known Member

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    That was a test fit to take a pic, then I noticed it afterwards, they are correct now haha
     
  10. TikkaShooters

    TikkaShooters Official LRH Sponsor

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    Devin spent a very long time with me on the phone last week going over the 338 Sin and what prep needs to be done to maximize it. After speaking with him, it is obvious he has done his due diligence in testing performance and process before bringing this cartridge to market.

    He is exceptionally knowledgeable about what he is doing and has great customer service.

    Yesterday he received my action to start a 338 Sin.

    This is like waiting for Christmas!
     
  11. sinarms

    sinarms Well-Known Member

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    As most of you know Long time long ranger is up in Alaska shooting Caribou with the 338 Sin and 225gr Cutting Edge bullets. I got a call from him the other night letting me know how the 338 Sin and CE bullets were performing. His first shot was at ~883 yards, hit the Caribou in the shoulders and blew out of the back side with an exit hole ~1.25", no bullet was recovered, Caribou had no chance of moving. Next shot was in the mid 500 yards with the exact same result, no bullet recovered either. Don is happy with the cartridge, bullet, and ~7lbs scoped rifle. He will be able to tell more when he gets back.
     
  12. Outlaw6.0

    Outlaw6.0 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the update, i've (along with everyone else) been waiting, albeit impatiently, for the range report.:D
    SinArms, has there been any updates on the 6.5 Sin lately?