.338 win mag reloads NEED HELP!

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by tacsniper0888, Jul 22, 2012.

  1. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys. I'm new here but I need some help. I have a .338 win mag in a Remington 700 Sendero which as many of you probably know is their top of the line over the counter rifle. Anything more is custom shop. It has an H-S Precision pillar bedded stock on it and a 26" fluted heavy "magnum" contour barrel on it. I want to e able to effectively and accurately shoot at LEAST 1,000 yards with it and be able to kill whitetail. I have a Millett LRS-1 6-25X56mm scope on it with 120 moa of adjustment vertical and horizontal with a one piece Millett 20moa scope base. I'm thinking about going with the new 45moa badger rail to compensate for my lower velocities ad harder fall. I was going to shoot the new Berger 250 OTM's but brownell's and midway are both on backorder till "sometime in August" was all the customer service rep could tell me. So instead I ordered the bore tech 245 grain solid V3 match bullets made entirely of a brass copper alloy! They are CNC machined on a lathe not extruded and jacketed as conventional bullets. The problem is I can't find any load data for a 245 grain so I called the company and they had data for a .338 Lapua but not a win mag so they told me to use the same load I would for the 250 grain berger's but to START AT THE MAX AND GO UP FROM THERE as their bullets are solids and have bands on the back to seal the bore and generate less pressure!!!! This alarmed me as conventional reloading wisdom and data always says to NEVER start at the max nor ever exceed it so I asked them again to be sure and they said yes start at the max and go up as you normally would watching for signs of pressure spikes i.e. blowed out primers ripples in the case neck and to start off seating .050" off the lands and go farther OFF the lands not closer that they have found ideal seating depth to be between .030" and .050" off the lands. That their bullets do better with a jump to the lands and that they also MUST be coming out of the barrel at LEAST 3,000fps to even stabilize which is my thin line of margin with my 26" 1-10" twist barrel!!! I have got to burn it hot to get that magical 3,000 mark. They told me their bullets are not designed to be shot or zeroed at 100 yards that they won't group that well that close because they haven't had enough time to "equalize' yet. That all of their personal guns are zeroed at three hundred and that their bullets are designed to be shot to the MOST EXTREME ranges possible! They are using the same bullet design as Cheyanne Tactical (i.e. CheyTac) in their .408 CheyTac cartridge that is designed to be shot at up to 2,200 meters!!!! Thanks guys for taking the time to read my long post and as always thank a vet, keep it safe, and send em down range!
     
  2. 338winmag

    338winmag Well-Known Member

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    Well.................. I am usually the one to not agree with the masses if I belief "someone is encouraging others to drink Koolaid".

    I wanted to respectfully dissect your post but decided rather to just touch on this "coming out of the barrel at LEAST 3,000fps to even stabilize" statement.

    First, I believe that many rifles today from absolute experience, regardless of make and model, if decent handloading practices are incorporated, can produce really nice long range hunting results with the tested load and bullet used.

    I am hoping that the reader of this reply will complete this reading before making any subjective discernment. I honestly believe (seriously), that one needs to apply some of their own personal logical thinking ability before one starts to just accept what anyone says is "real truth" (yup that includes me). Yes science is defintely science but be careful someone does not twist the science toward their benefit.

    I cannot totally disagree with this statement "coming out of the barrel at LEAST 3,000 fps to even stabilize", but it has limited scientific truth and applies probably even less for most bullets.

    Now I could be wrong on al this but:
    First, you have one nice hunting rig setup! Seriously.. What this nice setup greatly offers is possible less time for sweet spot load testing and product error, but ask yourself this initial question. If one finds the sweetload for a particular lesser costing rile that shots 1/8" MOA at 200 yd (same scope as for the higher costing\quality rifle), does the bullet's trajectory get affected by the quality of the rifle after this distance? This should be an interesting question for you. Once the bullet has left the rifle and attained specific results, does the rifle affect the bullet's further ballistic results at 1000?

    Next, now keep this in objective consideration. If a manufacturer's bullet specification needs are such extermely dictative and specific requirements that one has to meet all of the manufacturer's extreme specific requirements on everyone's firings, is it trully realistic to believe the manufacturor's ballistic results.

    This is my perspective.
    Its either - One needs to find the ballistic perfection of one's rifle and load. If there is not a stablaization at 100, then cannot the bullet stabalize at 200 yards? I have a feeling that the manufacture tech's statement's might be very subjective and possibly not the real manufacterer bullets potential truth.

    This bulet is not worth your time and effort since altitude, climate condition can always affect this 3000fps muzzle velocity and inside 100 or 200 yard range can determine whether the bullet stablized is even possible.

    Try an accubond. With my specific case. seating depth and load capapcity, I am getting .650 or less @ 200 with my load\rilfe that is a Weatherby Vanguard S1.
    Powder can make a difference along with other factors.

    338winmg
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012

  3. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    338winmag has some very valid points.
    We've been around bore riders for a while( I have some of the gs custom ones loaded in my 338 at present so I can burn 'em up) and they do alright, but you aren't getting 300 fps more with them in any rifle, maybee 100 fps or so, if that. The weight of the bullet has a lot more to do with how fast it goes than barrel friction. Less friction will help, but if you really want 3K out of a 338 with a 250 grain (or around 250 grain) pill you need to get an ultra or lapua. I can get 2900 fps with a 225 and that's about it, I might see a bit more as I have a 26" bore, but I'm not pushing an already good shooting rifle. A 250 will top between 2700 fps and 2800 fps in a 338, and 2800fps is pushing it hard. A 22" barrel would be fast at 2700 fps. It's the same story as moly or danzac, drop the friction, lower the pressure, kick up the powder charge to get back lost velocity, barely make any gain.
    You'll do better with an accubond in 225 or 250, or one of the other good main line bullets.
    I use the 225 hornady interlock(killed a deer at 550 yards with one), the 225 accubond, and the 250 sierra. Reloader 19 and 210-215 primers for all. My 225's use a 215, and the 250 settles down better with the 210; don't know why, don't care. The cloverleafs at 100 yards tell the whole story.
     
  4. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys for the info. In gonna try and get em loaded up this weekend and give em a go. I'll let you guys know how they do if I get to try them. May have to work :( any load recipes you guys are using for 225 and 250 grain pills would be greatly appreciated.
     
  5. FEENIX

    FEENIX Well-Known Member

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    There was a nice article about the .338 Win Mag but I cannot seem to find it. Anyways, the article concluded that due to lack of power capacity, the 225 grain is the max weight before diminishing return.

    My accuracy load is 225 NAB, 73.5gr H4831SC, and CCI250.

    Good luck!
     
  6. Clark

    Clark Well-Known Member

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    With a 26" barrel and 250 gr and running right at the SAAMI limit of 64kpsi, 2725 fps is all one could expect from extreme powders.

    That is the load I use 69 gr H4350 250 gr Nos Gold Part. and I only get 2600 fps with a 24" barrel, but I have a slow jug of H4350.

    If you go to a temp unstable powder and push the pressure to 70 kpsi, the threshold of long brass life, you will still not break 2800 fps.

    What does it all mean?
    You can't get to 3000 fps with a 26" 338WM and 250 gr bullet.
    Give up on that.


    If you reamed out to 338 Lapua Magnum, registered at 61kpsi, with a 26" barrel, 250 gr bullet, extreme powder, you can reach 2900 fps, clearly 175 fps more when playing by the rules.
    That is like standing 100 yard closer for velocity.
     
  7. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Forget 3000 fps in a 338 winchester with a 245 grain bullet. The best long range hunting bullet for the 338 winchester is the D62 225 grain .64 BC Cutting Edge bullet. It will shoot well in your 1-10 twist 26" barrel and get you very close to 3000 fps. This bullet makes the 338 Winchester a serious long range rifle for large big game. RE19 does well with it in the 338 Winchester however other powders also do well.

    If you are looking for a hunting bullet this one is the best I have found for 338 cartridges hunting inside of 1100-1200 yards. It is THE bullet for the 338 Winchester. It performs the best within the capability of the cartridge.
     
  8. Mike 338

    Mike 338 Well-Known Member

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    Does that bullet work well in a repeater w/extended magazine?
     
  9. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    This bullet will shoot well at various seating depths in my rifles. I have shot it from a few thousanths off contact to well down in the case for feeding through the magazine. It has not been critical to seating depth in my rifles. Copper bullets like to be seated off the lands and typically will shoot well at various depths. That is a big plus over typical lead core vld type bullets. Like all bullets if you work with it you can fine tune it to your rifle. If that depth doesn't feed then load some that will for quick shots and they shoot so close to the longer ones they are easily good to several hundred yards for quick shots.
     
  10. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Hey thanks for the great info mike 338!!! I actually have some RE19 left over from some Barnes 200 grain X bullet bear loads I fixed up at one point. WAY OVERKILL for whitetail at close range, inside of 200. Too much meat destruction. I'm currently shooting 180 grain nosler original ballistic tips not accubonds that have been moly coated (they were gave to me do I figured I would put em to good use, now I know why they were give to me) hopefully I can finally get this crap out of my barrel!!! I'm shooting IMR 4831 at 74.0 grains currently with a federal 215M primer with Winchester western cases at 3.340 oal and according to "loadata" that load has a muzzle velocity of 2995 and I believe that was with a 24" barrel but I have not chronographed it yet to determine for sure what it is generating but once these are gone they're GONE!!! Too light in the wind not high enough BC and dreadful moly. The bullets you lead me to are similar to the boretech bullets I purchased. I've done opened them now so can't send back so will load them up and give em a whirl but will then but the cutting edge bullet. I wanted to ask you for your load recipe for that bullet with powder type and charge and primer and case dimensions and seating depth if you wouldn't mind revealing your secret I would appreciate it as ole mucho grande ha a surprise when he steps out across the bean field this year ;) also what gun are you shooting with what barrel length and twist rate. What kind of velocities and groups do you average? Thanks again mike!
     
  11. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    73-74 grains RE19 shoots very well with the 225 CE. This is at the max end so start 72 or so. I have shot as high as 75 grains in one of my rifles. Seat the bullet as directed on the CE website. It should shoot very accurate at that point but will also be accurate if you need to seat the seal tite band down into the case to feed through your action. Typically they give good accuracy without being critical to seating depth. I have got 2950 fps out of a 24" barrel Tikka T3 light. CE bullets shoot 75+ fps faster than same weight lead core bullets in the rifles I have tested them in. That adds to ballistics of the high BC. I started using them last year and have had excellent results with them. The 225 grain D62 .64 BC is my go to bullet for hunting with the 338 cartridges now. I have been playing with the 260 grain mid .7's BC out of my 338-378 wby at 3300 fps but no kills with it yet.
     
  12. Mike 338

    Mike 338 Well-Known Member

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    I wish I could take credit for all that testing and info but every bit of that was from Long Time Long Ranger. I've been trying to get a Winchester 338 Win Mag to shoot but cannot squeeze any decent accuracy out of it so I have a new barrel on order. That Cutting Edge bullet looks very promising but it's twice the price of anything else I shoot so I've held off trying them. I was wondering what bullet to throat the chamber for. I guess I'll get a box and see how they fly.

    Long Time Long Ranger- I see the D62 bullet is designed to be seated out long for maximum powder capacity. Do you think throating for this bullet will prevent other bullets from getting close to the lands? I was asking because I see they have a standard version as well (D67) with the same BC but with the SealTite band in a more forward position to seat the bullet deeper into the case, presumably to feed better from magazines. By reading the reloading info on the site, you can't seat the SealTite band below 1/2 of the case neck. It seems like it would be a little hard to load for. Thoughts???
     
  13. tacsniper0888

    tacsniper0888 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks mike and long time long ranger. I work third shift and was reading the board on break last night so I was a little sleep deprived and somewhat delirious. The joys of third. Lol.
     
  14. RTK

    RTK Well-Known Member

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    I have always had a similar question, if the bullet is off the mark at 100 yards (lets say 1.5MOA grouping) due to stabilization how is it magically going to come back on mark at 300 yards?????? I never could get my head around this going to sleep or stabilizing thing where accuracy improves with range.........