338 Win Mag load

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by cavtrooper94, Apr 20, 2012.

  1. cavtrooper94

    cavtrooper94 Well-Known Member

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    Need some help guys. I would like to push a 225 gr Barnes TTSX with H4350, but can't find any data. I'm hoping to get 2800 fps. Has anybody done some leg work on this one and have some data.

    Thanks Much
     
  2. kermodie

    kermodie Active Member

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    Start around 65 gr and work up. It's usually easy to get to 2800 in most barrels (some guys load to 2900).
    If I remember correctly, when I was working up loads for mine 71 gr H4350, Fed 215, Win Brass, 3.340 OAL @ 2860 fps. Accurate but it was a hot load in my gun.

    Mine prefers H4831 with the 225's (73.5 gr, Fed 215, 2720 fps) the critters don't know the difference and the brass lasts longer.

    Barnes manual - 67.5 gr IMR 4350 = 2753 fps @ 3.320 OAL was their accuracy load.

    FYI: I contacted Barnes re: 225 TTSX minimum impact velocity for proper expansion and they replied - 1800 fps about 650 yrds (depending on your elevation, muzzle velocity etc) would give great expansion, 1600 FPS about 825 yrds will still expand. Based on that info, I use 2000 fps as a minimum and then the added range out to 1800 is a safety factor. IMO 1600 is pushing it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2012

  3. cavtrooper94

    cavtrooper94 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Kermodie,

    Anybody else have any experience with this combo?
     
  4. sep

    sep Member

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    Cavtrooper94,

    I've been doin load development recently with my 338 WM and 225 TTSX bullets. My previous 338 WM loved IMR4350 but this rifle won't shoot IMR4350 or H4350 consistently. I have yet to get two groups in a row under one inch...and I've tried. I really wanted H4350 to shoot well because of its temperature stability but no dice. I would go from a 1/2 inch 3 shot group to a 2 7/8ths inch 3 shot group. Last weekend, I tried 75.0 grains H4831SC and got my first two groups to both shoot under an inch. Velocity is a little on the slow side though at 2715 fps. This weekend I'll be shootin more groups with H4831SC and chronographing em to confirm this load. BTW I've calculated the density of this load at 107+% using winchester cases and I've experienced no pressure signs at all.

    In the past with my old 338 WM, I tried RL19 and RL22 but IMR4350 trumped em both in accuracy. That rifle had a 26 inch tube so my velocity clocked in at 2825fps.

    I recently shot some Barnes VOR-TX 225 grain TTSXs to see how they performed. I got 1/2 inch groups with velocity of 2816 fps. I pulled a bullet and found a charge of 69.4 grains of a ball powder. I suspect it is a special run we handloaders can't get. Velocity is good however according to Ramshot on their website, ball powders cannot currently be made temperature insensitive so I expect different velocity from these factory loads in October here in Fairbanks. Consequently, I'll stick to the Hodgdon extreme line of powders.

    As to velocity, H4350 at 68.5 grains started showing me ejector marks on the case heads at a velocity of 2805fps.

    IMR4350 at 70.5 grains gave me a sticky bolt lift and ejector marks on the case heads...velocity clocked in at 2792fps.

    I haven't taken H4831SC beyond 75.0 grains (yet) because I don't want to compress the load anymore than I have to, to get what I need. Since I haven't encountered any pressure signs I might try and bump it up a little in charge weight but I don't think I'll reach 2800 fps before running out of case room.

    The bottom line is keep tryin powders and your barrel will tell you when you've found a match. Good shootin!
     
  5. T3-OleMan

    T3-OleMan Well-Known Member

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    "this combo"....close but no cigar. Same H4350-Barnes MRX 225-and 338WM.

    Dec. 2008 I retired my 1953 Mod 70 F/W .270 and 140gr Black talons.
    To replace it I required a:
    338WM=Tikka T-3 SS Lite -no brake
    225gr copper @ 3,000'/sec
    225gr copper @ 3,000'/sec with a nose cone!
    To get a 225gr @ 3,000fps I had to find a short bullet with short bullet bearing surface, or the excess preassure would stop me short of my goal. Enter the Barnes MRX 225. With the 4 cantalures, a heaver than lead suppository-to keep it shorter than a TSX- and a BT that allowed me to get 3,000 in 5 of 25 rounds in my last COAL test.

    Don't try this in your rifle but start 15% lower and work up!!
    My one load that I worked up.
    73.5gr H4350 {MAX LOAD FOR ME = some Ejector marks}
    225 MRX (now discontinued 2011??)
    215 GM Fed match
    Win Brass

    Other MISC Info. {as you can tell I have the "NEED FOR SPEED"!}
    The 7 were spread over 3 of the 5 groups of COALs. Why?????? No idea.
    I could not get Clean Cold First shot nailed down and abandoned using up my high $$ bullets.
    Like anything in my life ...if I like it they stop making it!!!! Can't have nothing, and my C drive croaked in Feb 2011 and lost most of my load details. While setting up my new Zeiss I discovered Nellie likes the Hornady-GMX-185s & dirty on top of that.

    So, if~n you can't get all the "speed you need" from the TTSXs, find somebody that will sell you some of their private stock of 225gr MRXs. They will go faster than any other 225s for the above stated reasons. I have a life time supply (not for sale) of all of the 338 MRXs and TTSXs BUT, I now shoot the Superformance GMX185 ammo cause it is copper-I got my 3,080fps-cheaper-already loaded-kicks less than a 225 pill - is more accurate than my other clean cold first shots in Nellie and the D R T ELK will never know he got screwed out of 40gr of copper.:rolleyes:

    Good luck, you may not really have to have a 225gr and could use the GMX 185s at 3,080fps?
     
  6. cavtrooper94

    cavtrooper94 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys,

    Sep I'm also in the Fairbanks area

    Ol Man I agree the 225 isn't always necessary but I'm heading to Kodiak next spring looking for a big brown.
     
  7. T3-OleMan

    T3-OleMan Well-Known Member

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    Good luck on the brownie. The MRX came in 185, 225 and 250s also.
     
  8. sep

    sep Member

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    Cavtrooper94,

    The 225 grain Barnes x has served me well on sitka blacktails, caribou, goat, moose, black bear, grizz and brownies. A california pig too. I expect similar performance from the 225 grain TTSX. If you want any more specific info feel free to P.M. me I work at Fort Wainwright. Good luck on Kodiak.
     
  9. Dzel777

    Dzel777 Active Member

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    Heres some load data with the 210 ttsx using h4831sc in a ruger mkii. Just to give you a base line. 75g 4831sc, win brass, fed gm prime, COAL 3.400" gets me 2950 fps with acceptable ed and sd and around one inch accuracy
     
  10. Lefty7mmstw

    Lefty7mmstw Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I don't use 4350 in my 338 with 225's. I do however get 2900 fps out of either the 225 hornady interlock or the 225 nos a-bond with 75 grains of rl19. I got nearly the same speed out of h4831, but I had 19 around, so it got the nod. In older data, rl19 could be pushed to 78 grains, but this would be nasty compression at my seating depth. I've got a ruger #1 (26"barrel) so even though she is a single shot, she isn't long throat-ed. I have loaded 200's with 4350, but that was the south african bullets and it was pretty much a one-off as they were a gift to see if they worked.
     
  11. TommyBreaux

    TommyBreaux Member

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    T3-OleMan,

    Where did you find the 185gmx's? I have looked everywhere, and called Hornady. Cabelas doesn't pretend to carry them. For the longest time the local Bass Pro had a sticker on their bullet shelf saying that they were out of stock. (Never had them in stock). The Sportsmens Wharehouse stores that I have been to didn't have them. When I called Hornady they told me they didn't know when they were going to actually make a run of 225's or the 185 gmx's.

    So just wondering where you found them.

    Tommy
     
  12. T3-OleMan

    T3-OleMan Well-Known Member

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    Tommy,
    They dropped the 225GMX and never made any for sale. I was on back order for 1.5 years at Cabelas then changed them to 185s and finally canceled them and got some from 'Cheapeer than dirt' that were listed as 225s but they were really 185s. I bought 10 boxs of the Superformance 185 GMX ammo when Nellie showed that she liked them real good.
    Gander says they have the AMMO but no bullets.
    http://www.gandermountain.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Hornady-Superformance-Ammunition-338-Win-Mag-185GR-GMX&i=428890&r=view&from=grid


    Hornady Superformance Ammunition, 338 Win. Mag., 185GR, GMX

    Item # 428890


    Our Price $49.99
    Availability: In Stock
    Saw it the other in a paper that came for $42. but they may not have any....you know that game. If she likes it buy a life time supply and don't look back of AMMO and bullets, cause they will stop making it if I like it!

    Google it you may find some bullets some where. I got about 1,000 blems 1/ 2 price$ a year ago and they were just as good as the first line product.

    Good luck
     
  13. TommyBreaux

    TommyBreaux Member

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    T3_OleMan,

    Thanks for the response. I guess I will continue to look for the 185's instead of the 225's. I have tried the 180 (Barnes TSX's). They shot real well in my No.1 and Sako but was concerned about the low ballistic coefficient compared to the 210's and 225 TTSX's.

    I have only recovered two bullets from anything that I have ever shot with the Barnes. Everything else has been a pass through and dropped withing about 20 yards of shot placement. I did have one gemsbock that traveled a long way but that was my fault not the bullet's.

    Good luck this season.

    Regards,

    Tommy
     
  14. Clark

    Clark Well-Known Member

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    250 gr Nosler Gold Partion, moly 69 gr H4350, 3.34", 24" barrel Browning BAR

    Average 2630 fps and feel no recoil at all with unsanded Limbsaver.