338 Edge, RUM or WIN Mag

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by ricknolan, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. ricknolan

    ricknolan Well-Known Member

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    I have been wrestling with the idea of building a 5-700 yard big game rifle for some months now. I don’t even know where there is a range to shoot 500 yards in my neck of the woods.

    I understand the 338 Edge and Laupa are great for long range work. I also understand that these guns are going to cost a couple of grand plus to have built.

    My questions for now are;

    How does a 338 RUM or Win Mag. Compare down range to the Edge or Laupa?

    If one could build a sub-moa RUM or WM on a Savage action for half the cost of a custom Edge or similar rifle is it really worth the extra expense of rifle, brass and case prep for the custom gun?

    Is there a better option for a Savage barrel instillation?

    Keeping in mind I am not wanting to shoot 1,000 plus targets, rather targets in the 5-700 yard range.

    Your collective feedback is appreciated.
     
  2. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    The 308 Win will meet your requirements in spades........
     

  3. Varminator 911

    Varminator 911 Well-Known Member

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    Any 338 wiil work at 500-700 yds

    Even the 338 WM will lanch a 225 accubond at 2800+ or the new 250 gr accubond at 2700fps in a 24 inch barrel. This is adequate for 500 yds at least on elk size game. The 338 RUM will add another 200fps+. With the 250 gr Accbond that will easily get to 700. If you have a longer barrel with the RUM you could move up to the 300 gr SMK and be at 1000 yds. This isn't much behind the Lapua or the Edge. The RUM in a savage would be a very good starting rig for someone who wants good value.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2008
  4. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Going from a 338 WinMag to a 338 Rum by just switching barrels I would say the following.

    The 338 WinMag will do the job IF you can get the extreme velocity spread under 15 or better. The WinMag was super accurate at 200yds but out at 830 it was a chase due to vertical spread which was due to inconsistent velocities. I just couldn't make it work no matter how/what I tried. I was shooting 250s hotter than Hades BTW.

    I switched to the 338 RUM barrel and stumbled onto a US-869 load w/300 SMKs that the ES was 1. Plus it was very accurate. With that the steel coyote at 830 was pretty much no fun anymore as it was tumbled almost every shot and it was a long walk out there and back for the next shot.

    Not a jab at jwp475 but the 308 Win. is kind of not a "manly" cartridge.;)
     
  5. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

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    i love the 338 caliber but if 700 yards is the max, i'd consider a 300 win mag. bullet selection can't be beat in 308 caliber, great brass is available. a 338WM would hit a little harder...on both ends!
     
  6. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    Roy, the 308 may not be manly in IYHO. I based my answer on the statement above. This lead me to believe that the gentleman was, is a newbie to LRH and nothing wrong with that. We all must learn to crawl before walking and the 308 is not the only one, but it is a great round to learn with...
     
  7. royinidaho

    royinidaho Writers Guild

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    Didn't mean to get under your skin. Poor attempt at humor:rolleyes:

    I agree that the 308 Win would do very well under those conditions.

    I'm assembling a 6BR for pretty much the same thing ant its even more puny than the 308 Win.;)
     
  8. J E Custom

    J E Custom Well-Known Member

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    Rick

    For your comparison these loads are for a .338 250gr bullet out of Hodgdons
    reloading manual and listed as maximum.

    338 win mag=2657 ft/sec
    340 weatherby=2784 ft/sec
    338 Lapua=2853 ft/sec
    338 RUM-2964 ft/sec
    338/378 weathwrby=3072 ft/sec

    I dont know why the Lapua is slower than the rum because it apears to
    have 1 or 2 grains of capacity more than the RUM.

    I dont have good data on the edge but using the same powder it should
    have slightly more capacity than the Lapua (104 or 105grs)Placing it between
    the Lapua and the 338/378 weatherby.

    The main advantage that the Lapua,RUM,Edge and 338/378 weatherby have over
    the 338 Win and 340 Weatherby is that if you want to use the 300 SMK the case
    capacity will make a big difference.

    Look at the ballistics of each and compare.

    You be the judge
    J E CUSTOM
     
  9. Ballistic64

    Ballistic64 Well-Known Member

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    For a low budget rig with the ranges your talking about Id look at a savage Model 12 Low Profile in 300 WSM.You can always upgrade to a match grade barrel and do it yourself.Ive also been thinking of a 300 saum on thier new target action.Up until a few years ago I wouldnt of even thought of buying a Savage,but since buying one last year Ive had a complete change of heart about the current Savage rifles.A friend and I took our Savage 22-250s out today and launched some 60gr VMaxes.The target below is a typical group at 100 yds.Theres six rounds on the target and Ive found that free recoil is the way to shoot this gun (at least with me :D).Kirby,if you happen to read this,I tried shooting my 300 saum Sendero free recoil today...boy,what a mistake.:D[​IMG]
     
  10. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    Ricknolan, What some call the edge on here is simply the 300 ultramag necked to 338. Pac-Nor will be glad to send you a barrel to screw into your Savage chambered in it. It has been a very common chambering over the past ten years used by quite a few gunsmiths. It has a small velocity gain over the standard 338 ultramag which is just a tad shorter. Both require a muzzle brake so include that into your cost.

    At the range you mentioned inside 700 yards shooting the 338 winchester is a great option and most shoot great right off the shelf with a little accurizing. I have two and they both shoot great. Again it is usually just a very accurate round in a good rifle with proper loads. I used one in Alaska about ten years ago as a back up rifle. I took a 67" moose at nearly 1100 yards and two big bull caribou at 500 and 700. Very good performance on all animals. The 338 win mag is at it's best with the 200 grain nosler ballistic tips at 3000 fps. That shortenned magnum case on the winny doesn't work well with heavy, long bullets and it just doesn't get the velocity. You do not need a muzzle brake with this one shooting the 200 grain bullet. It is quite pleasant with that load. It shoots flat enough and hits plenty hard enough for anything at your range. Cheap, over the counter and let a good gunsmith accirize it for you. I think you will be very satisfied on a budget. Then take the money you saved and go on a good elk hunt.

    If you want to go big time then get a gunsmith to screw in a 338-300 ultramag barrel for you and put a brake on it. It is a very accurate round and will throw a 300 grain matchking a long way accurately.

    J E Custom, Here are some velocities you can expect from the rounds you mentioned with 250 grain bullets. I have built and shot all of those for years and have volumous data.
    340 wby over 3000 fps
    338 Lapua over 3150 fps
    338-300 ultramag over 3100 fps
    338-378 wby over 3250 fps
    These are averages. Some guns may not get that and some may get a lot more. Just depends on the barrel. I have three 7mm stw's that will not shoot a bit faster than my 7mm wby's, two will shoot faster, but none as fast as my 7mm-300 wby. The stw has more case capacity though. I have gone through who knows how many 300 wby's through the years but kept the best one I have ever seen. The velocities out of it equal the 30-378 wby and it only has a 26" tube. 200 grain bullet at 3250, 180 at 3475. I could go on and on. So I always just talk about averages because somebody is always going to have a gun that just blows the average out of the water.
     
  11. ricknolan

    ricknolan Well-Known Member

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    338-378 Weatherby Magnum

    I have not even looked at a 338-378. Pac-Nor has one that will fit a Savage.

    It looks better on paper that the other 338's why not one of them? What is the good and bad?
     
  12. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that your Savage action would be strong enough for the big 378 case especially after opening up the bolt face. Maybe one of the good gunsmiths can come on here and answer that for you. I have built a lot of them on actions that were designed for the 378. Pac-nor has an improved 338-378 Kahn which gets you a bit more powder capacity and velocity over the standard 338-378. If you stick with your Savage action I think you would be better off with the 338-300 ultramag. When your talking about that much gun 150-200 fps is not all that much when you consider the expense of going to the 338-378. The 338-300 ultramag is a very good round. The 338-378 is better but I would get an action made for it.
     
  13. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    You didn't get under my skin at all......[​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2008
  14. Lightvarmint

    Lightvarmint Guest

    Why doesn't anyone ever hit the dime?

    James