338 Edge Ackley?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Tyler Kemp, Jul 26, 2008.

  1. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

    Messages:
    1,461
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    Does anyone chamber this caliber? I wouldn't really do it for a ballistic gain, but I hate trimming, plus I could have lower pressures and longer brass life. Looking on ammoguide there's a bit of room to blow out the case and make the shoulder sharper.
     
  2. JD338

    JD338 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    718
    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    This is also known as the 338 O'Brien. My gunsmith has made a few of them.

    JD338
     

  3. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    It can be "improved" , with an Ackley improvement you would gain very little it already has a reasonably steep should and not alot of body taper.

    I'f I were going to go through the hassel of fireforming brass I'd Ackley improve the 338 Lapua , youll get a step up in velocity and the cases are far better quality.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2008
  4. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

    Messages:
    1,461
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    But it can't be done in a standard action. Really would like to use the Savage target action.
     
  5. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Who told you that ? , you have been missled.

    Several builders use the Savage action with Lapua based rounds , If I'm not mistaken I think Kirby Allen has done a few ,Kevein rayhill does alot of them he has a "Rayhill Rocket" thats a 7mm based on the 338 Lapua case
     
  6. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Here is a quote from Fred Moreo of Sharp Shooter Supply. Not to discredit Kirby or Kevin, but I would trust Fred's opinion.

    I get this question 15 times a week. The short answer is no, the Savage action was never engineered for cases that big. I have discussed this with several engineers and custom action builders, that all came to the same conclusion. A case of that size needs a .750" diameter bolt, and a 1-1/8" barrel shank, minimum.
    I know from personal experience on a gun that I built for myself that after less than 100 rounds, it experienced lug set-back. There is not enough surface area on the bolt lugs for that kind of pressure, let alone enough to provide a cushion for over pressure.
    There are several custom action makers that will build express actions for those class of cartridges. Probably the most reasonable is Stiller's Precision firearms. Sako made some in .338 Lapua, in a tactical rifle.
    The .338 Lapua seems to intrigue alot of shooters that "must have one", but I would suggest before you jump in with both feet, find someone that has one and beg to shoot it first. You might change your mind about what fun is all about.
     
  7. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    I guess all the one built on Rem 700's and othe Savage action are a hoax?

    I don't see any logic behind this needing a .750" bolt , the bolt diameter has zero bearing on it , all the stress is imparted on the lugs of the bolt head and the lug recesses in the action.

    If a Sacage is barreled just like a Remington it will handel any sane perssures a handloader will run in a Lapua case.

    If you were to rebate a rim of the lapua case to fit into a magnum bolt face would that make it any better? , no the case head is where most of the trouble comes from because it not rebated like other RUM , the case is slighly fatter but it will work.

    Call Kevin Rayhill and talk to him about it , he is the guy that Fred Morro calls if he gets in a bind
     
  8. davewilson

    davewilson Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,634
    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2004
    tell Fred to call Remington because they produce factory 700's in 338Lapua. just a sidenote...the 700 got it's name from the diameter of the bolt. .700
     
  9. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Its a common missconception that remington actions are stronger than Savages because of the Locking nut thats used to hold the barel on and the two piece on the Savage when truefuly the Savage reciever is a stronger desgine bacause the barrel threads ar 20 TPI rather than 16 like the Rem so the threads are not as deep as the Remington so their is actualy more metal in this area. Now the bolt head is a two piece desgine and if you talk to anybody thats ever cut on one they will tell you they are typicaly harder than the Remington's and some test have been done where the Savage bolt outlasted the Remington when the lugs were subjected to high pressure.

    you can just as easly blow up and action with a 223 as you can with a 338 Lapua , don't believe me fill a 223 case with Hodgdon Universal pistol powder and top it off with a 80gr bullet ,I guarntee it will be more than the rifle can stand and I highly doubt that you'll be able to tell the differance in that and a 338 Lapua loaded on the hot side causeing the weapon to fail.
     
  10. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,595
    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2005
    My 338 Lapua built on a Rem-700 action with the bolt stop moved to allow a COAL up 3.9" and fitted with a Seekins detachable box magazine that will hold a loaded lenght of 3.92".

    [​IMG]

    It shoots pretty well also, 3 in this 4X6 at 975 yards

    [​IMG]


    There are and have been a lot of 338 Lapua built on 700 action and I see no problem. I went with the Lapua because of the quality of the brass. I am happy with my decision
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2008
  11. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

    Messages:
    1,461
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2006
    If I can find a 700 action cheap I may go that way instead of Savage target action. But it still needs to be trued and stuff, which will run up price.
     
  12. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    Wow!

    It seems people are bit touchy about the Lapua. I had no idea. Sorry if I ruffled some feathers with Fred's quote.

    I know that there are only two guys that know almost everything there is to know about Savages. That would be Kevin and Fred. One says yes. One says no. Pick your man and go with it.

    I've had work done by both, and know who I would choose.
     
  13. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,854
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    I don't think anybodys feathers got ruffeled , i get a bit defensive over subjects that guy start making statements about when they are actualy only going on some second or third hand information and taking it as tried and true facts when its realy just a theory.
     
  14. geargrinder

    geargrinder Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,972
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2006
    The vast majority of us here are not gunsmiths. We do not and will not have firsthand experience with most things. We have to rely on what we are told by people who we trust and respect.

    I'm here to learn and to share what I have learned.

    It's all Tyler's fault. If he would have gotten a 32 on his ACT. He would be on his way to a custom rifle by now.:D