338 comparisons

Discussion in 'Specialty Handgun Hunting' started by trueblue, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    Has there been a post comparing the speeds obtain with the 300SMK in the following pistols:
    338 AX
    338 EDGE
    338 Norma
    338 Lapua
    338 WM
    It would be interesting to see some comparisons on performance.
     
  2. ewallace

    ewallace Well-Known Member

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    Im getting just over 2700 fps with the 300g SMK in my 338 Nawakwa (338 lapua IMP) 18" barrel

    [​IMG]
     

  3. ewallace

    ewallace Well-Known Member

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    Im getting 2700 fps with my 338 Nawakwas (338 lapua IMP) 18" barrel

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][/URL
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
  4. ewallace

    ewallace Well-Known Member

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    dubble post
     
  5. hammertyme

    hammertyme Well-Known Member

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    I agree: I too would like to see a comparison that is fact based.

    All cartridges would have to be shot across the same chrony for one. I personally have two chronographs and one reads 50fps faster than the other regardless of cartridge or caliber. I have a friend with a very expensive Chronograph and I love shooting my stuff across his Chrony because his always reads 100fps faster than my faster Chronograph. All of my published data is from my slower Chronograph because to date and from experience of doing this type of stuff for the past 30 years I just do not think some of the velocities being obtained by me or others are obtainable.

    An example of this: my 19" Edge shooting a 225gr Accubond is within 6fps spread at 2957 Average,

    Another person comes along with a shorter barrel with slower burning powder and obtains a velocity 150fps faster with the Edge or equal case capacity cartridge to the Edge! Mathematically that is not possible. SO I must presume one of two things. Presuming the first, I change my powder type to what they are publishing and Bam, I instantly lost 100fps.
    When I first decided to put the Edge in a handgun I had read all the data from everywhere. Before I built, I gave data to someone I trusted in Canada to project the burn rates of H1000 and H4831 with the above data. It was easy to choose H4831. After firing and reporting here and other places I asked a friend in the midwest to calculate and crunch my data. Neither one till today knows of each other.
    They both determined the exact 99.7 burn rate for H4831 in a 19" barrel.

    I initually dropped from the 338 X 378 and Improved back down to the Edge because I was not happy with my velocities for the amount of powder I was burning in the shorter barrels. Because of the huge case capacity of the Weatherby I could not use faster burning powders and fill the case to where I did not have such huge velocity differences and pressure issues.

    To date the 338 Win Mag and the 338 WSM are in another class something below the big boys. Definitely the larger cases are needed to push the 300SMK at appreciable velocities. They lose ground badly with 250gr bullets.
    However the next two weeks I am going to challenge the big boys with a 338 Win Mag and see just how close I can get with a new process.

    Neal
     
  6. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    add the 338 Big Baer to your mix.

    Caution on supposed velocities though. Guns with 10 grains less than the smith listed max have been known to lock the bolts up and at 200 fps less than quoted MV. Bet you do not hear that quoted by the smith.

    Each gun is a beast unto its own so that does not mean yours will get that and you can always run MV way up with limited brass life and less than max accuracy. So that gives you a high speed miss!

    Very few guns ever get max accuracy at the extreme MV ever quoted.

    Take for example the 338 Edge. From what I have seen, it gives decent brass life with phenomonal accuracy at the norm of 2820 fps. Not the fastest, but damn sure one of the most accurate and consistent. So how does that play in to max MV equation?

    Anyway my 2 centsZ.

    BH
     
  7. Ernie

    Ernie SPONSOR

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    Another difficulty is different length barrels.
    Add to that some barrels are faster/slower than others.
     
  8. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the responses guys.
    The point of the question was to get an idea on case capacity and performance with the 225gr and then jump up to the 300gr bullets. Just from the little I have read, it seems the 338WM would be a good choice for the 225gr AB, but then jump up to any variation of the 338 EDGE, Norma, Lapua for the 300gr bullets.
    Does this set with everyones thinking?
     
  9. doniphan

    doniphan Well-Known Member

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    As others have posted, there are so many variables between barrels, brass capacity, bullet weights (you know they aren't all exactly 225 gr etc), seating depth, primers, lots of powder, altitude, and as Neal said, even accuracy of the chronograph that is taking the velocity readings, and the list of variables goes on and on and on.

    Now I am no expert, but I have been able to do pretty well with a program called Quickload to do cartridge/component "what ifs??" And when I have all the variables entered very accurately it will usually produce some pretty amazing results. And by that I mean that when I check the programs projected data against the actual real world data that I get from my chorny, it comes out pretty darn close.

    That all being said, I am sure that there are many here on this site who are better at producing this data with Quickload than I. But, if all the input data is accurate, then in my experience the projections tend to be very accurate.

    I guess my point is that if someone were to take all the variables for each of the cartridges and put them into the program, you should have a very good idea of which cartridge will do what. And by the way you can also factor in barrel length to make all things "equal".

    It would be a time consuming exercise, but I think it would be extremely interesting to see the results.

    John
     
  10. dougm

    dougm Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I don't want to shoot 225 grain bullets out of my .338 Norma, or Lapua.... it just doesn't make sense to me to do that. I think it would be hard on the throat too.
    For my .338 Norma, and .338 Lapua the lightest I want to go is 250 grain. These are long range cartridges and I want the better BC of the longer, heavier bullet.

    I've shot 225 Barnes from my Lapua and they certainly fly fast, but to me they are not a good match.
    If I wanted to shoot up to 225 grain bullets I'd choose a .330 Dakota and a 18inch barrel on one of my XP midgrip actions. In fact, this will probably be my next build. I picked up a new Dakota barrel (#4) and some dies off Ebay last year, and some brass off the forums so I'm good to go.

    As for comparing the different calibers, I think the Edge on a long custom action with a 19 or 20 inch barrel is just about perfect for most applications, and the most economical to boot.

    For max speed with the 300's I like the .338 Lapua Improved (and that will be my next barrel for my Lapua). Barrel length is up to the shooter but mine will be 20 inches.

    I'm currently working with a .338 Norma carrying a 23 inch #5 tapered barrel. I have an accurate load using 250's at around 2900+ which is where I want to be velocity wise. I'm hoping to do 2700 or so with 300 grain SMK's.
     
  11. 6hangingc

    6hangingc Well-Known Member

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    dougm,

    I am waiting on barrel and action for my 338 Norma build.
    What powders are you using with the 300gr SMK?
     
  12. dougm

    dougm Well-Known Member

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    I'm using Ramshot Magnum and VV N570.

    I've gone as high as 92 grains with each powder without any signs of pressure.

    Velocity is slightly higher with the VV N570

    I have not done any accuracy work with either powder as yet, just finding max load so far.

    I might have posted it, but my barrel is 23 inches.

    Good luck with your build.
     
  13. 6hangingc

    6hangingc Well-Known Member

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    dougm,

    Thanks for the info. Would appreciate an update after your accuracy work.
     
  14. bfr4570

    bfr4570 Well-Known Member

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    After talking with Kirby. I decided on a 338AX he was very helpful but way over my head on ballistics. I talked and looked at all 7mm and 338s and talking to Ernie with his new toy. Which Im getting a almost twin to. Most of the 338s seem very close with like everyone said barrels and lenght seem to influnce the speed alot. My deciding factor was Lupua brass. I know expinsive but good.gun)