338 cartridges

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by blacktimber, Sep 23, 2006.

  1. blacktimber

    blacktimber Member

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    I'm new to the forum and very interested in building a 338 beyond the factory cases currently available. Would someone kindly take the time and explain the cases and parent cases behind the 338 kahn, 338 edge, 338 wolf, 338 cheytac, and 338 KA? Many posts refer to these cartridges but I can find find little information on their design and background. Thanks.
     
  2. wildcat

    wildcat Well-Known Member

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    RP, I will take a stab at the cartridges you are trying to learn about;

    1. 338 Khan-The parent case is a 378 Weatherby Mag Case that is improved. Kirby Allen is the designer of this case.

    2. 338 Edge-The parent case is a 300 RUM necked up to 338. Shawn Carlock is the designer of this case.

    3. 338 Wolf-? Sorry, I don't know anything about this case.

    4. 338 Chey Tac-The parent case is a 408 Chey Tac (Awesome cartridge). I am having one like this built, it's called the 338 Allen Mag. The 338 Allen Mag uses the 408 Chey Tac for the parent case, however, the case is improved. The 338 Allen Mag will push a 300 Sierra Match King at around 3400 to 3500fps. This cartridge is yielding better performance than the 50 cal. If you want more info on the 338 Allen Mag, e-mail Kirby Allen or you can search under 338 Allen Mag. Kirby will answer everything you will want to know about this cartridge.

    4. 338 KA-? Sorry, I don't know anything about this case.

    I believe I am correct on the information I provided. If anyone else believes there are descrepencies, please, correct them.

    Wildcat
     

  3. uncleB

    uncleB Well-Known Member

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    rp,
    I will take a stab at this, 338Kahn (338 kubla kahn,338 shaka kahn) are based off an improved 338 Weatherby with the shoulder ironed out. the 338 edge was designed by shawn carlock and is a 300 Ultra necked up to 338. the 338Cheytac is a necked down 408 chey tac IMP, more commonly known here as a 338 Allen Mag or a 338 Snipe-Tac.
    There are others as well, the 338 Thunder ,a 338 Ultra IMP, or my favorite the 338MOAG (338Lapua IMP)
    hope this helps and good luck.
    UB
    guess wildcat was quicker on the keyboard than me
     
  4. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    RP,

    Just to make sure everyone knows, the 338 Kubla Kahn or Kahn for short was designed by Kenny Jarrett, not by me. I have just built alot of rifles in this chambering and have posted alot about them on LRH.

    The 338 Kahn is simply a 338-378 Wby that has a conventional 35 degree shoulder instead of the double radiused Wby shoulder. The shoulder is positioned slightly forward to allow factory cases to be fired in the Kahn chamber for fireforming. My favorite load for my 34" barreled rifle drives the 300 gr SMK to 2950 fps. My customers have gotten this same velocity in 30" barrels comfortably so I am obviously not running my pressures very hard!!

    The 338 Edge is Shawn Carlocks baby and may be the most practical 338 out there in the mid to upper performance level. It is basically a 300 RUM necked up to 338. Very efficent and consistant and easy to load for.

    I am not intimate with the Wolf so I will not talk on that one.

    The 338 Chey Tac is bascially the 408 CT necked down to 338. Hell of a round, VERY high performance. There are three wildcats similiar to this all using the same 408 CT parent case. These three are designed with different stages of improving the 338 Chey Tac. The 338 Big Baer designed by Bruce Baer is probably the closest to the 338 CT.

    Then there is the 338 Sniper Tac, a bit more capacity with less body taper and slightly sharper shoulder I believe.

    Then my 338 Allen Mag which is improved about as much as possible and the shoulder has been pushed forward for max case capacity. THey are all extremely similiar and very high performance compared to any other 338 out there.

    YOu can expect 3300-3500 fps with the 300 gr SMK with these three rounds depending on what barrel length you use.

    In my opinion, these three are the largest 338 wildcats that are still practical for field use.

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. Supermag

    Supermag Well-Known Member

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    I just ran a quick trajectory/energy on the 338 Allen Mag and WOW!.

    If sighted dead on at 100 the drop at 1,000 is only 15.5 min.

    The energy is amazing, &gt;7700 ft.lbs at the muzzle and &gt;3800 at 1000.

    Just for kicks (no pun intended) what is the typical recoil on this round. I love the power but like my fillings too.
     
  7. wildcat

    wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Supermag, If the 338 Allen Mag is braked, I have heard the recoil is similar to a 300 Win Mag. Kirby, is currently building my 338 AM, as soon as I get her I will let everyone know how she feels. My 338 AM will be braked with one of Kirby's brakes.

    Wildcat
     
  8. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Supermag,

    Recoil really depends on the rifle weight. In a 40-60 lb rifle like my "Black Sunshine", recoil is a gental roll back into your shoulder and you can shoot the rifle all day long with only a tee shirt without a brake and that is running her hard to the 3500 fps level. I do not care to push things that hard, 3400 is plenty.

    In a 25-30 lb rifle a I would not think a brake would be manditory but it would be helpful!!

    In a 15 lb class rifle which is about as you can practically make one you better have a muzzle brake and estimated recoil will be in the 300 Win Mag, 300 Wby range.

    I should have my lightweight 338 AM up and running soon and then I can report on the recoil.

    As you said as far as trajectory and energy, I agree, WOW!!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  9. wildcat

    wildcat Well-Known Member

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    Kirby, my 338 AM will weigh around 25lbs and will have one of your APS brakes, so I guess that means my 338 AM will recoil like a 223 /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I wish!!!
     
  10. Black Diamond 408

    Black Diamond 408 Well-Known Member

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    Rp;

    All of the 338 snipe-tac rifles i have built so far have been sub 16# hunting versions. With a muzzle brake and top loads with the 300MK bullet you can expect recoil similar to a 300win mag. With out the brake i have shot it as well, on a bench the recoil is up with the 458 win mag in a ruger rifle, i didn't care for that at all. Muzzle brakes are the only way to go with the lighter weight rifles. 25# rifles on up prolly don't need a brake. With the 300MK loaded to 3400fps and all that energy you will have medium felt recoil. I just finished a 12.5# rifle for a customer, it didn't recoil anymore than my 16# rifle, with identical brakes. I call these rifles "carry ridge rifles", you can carry them to your spot, set up for a long shot to the next ridge. I personally took mine to wyo this summer to check out some elk spots, laser ranged numerous areas, most shots were in the 800-1200yd range. With the scope sighted in at 300yds, i could use the Mil-Dot redicle for everything out to 1200yds with out changing the turret. 1200yds needed 17.25moa for dead center hit, my bottom hash mark is exactly that on my IOR scope, on a NightForce scope its even more, 1400yd range. We only fired several shots at rocks during the hunt test, my cousin didn't want to spook any elk staying in the area. He is a very small man, 130# 71 years old, he did all the testing with my rifle. He said it recoiled about the same as his 300H-H mag rifle. After all the testing we did, he ordered one. Said this rifle will extend his ability to hunt elk, its getting harder to hike into rough areas he said, this way he can set up a spot on a high ridge and watch the areas across the canyons.

    The 408 c-t case is a re-designed 505 Gibbs, but you can not use the Gibbs cases in the 408 wildcats, they will not stand the high chamber pressures.

    The 338 wildcats from the 408 c-t case is a major rush to shoot, from ignition to 1000yd target hit, 1.04 seconds, you barely have time to look up and see the dust behind the target. Accuracy is top notch, the heavy high bc bullet cuts through the wind as well. Parent cases are under 2$ ea.

    Dave
     
  11. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    The 338 Edge is Shawn Carlock's baby... Shawn did you design this cartridge? no pun intended...
     
  12. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    If I were you I'd go with the 338 Allen Mag. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
     
  13. rotorhead

    rotorhead Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever thought about a lazzeroni Titan. I'm not sure about what everybody esle is talking about but you wouldn't have to form the cases. I own two different lazzeonis and the brass they sell is super good and lasts. If you are instered let me know I have a few things for the Titan.

    Just my 2 cents worth.
    RH
     
  14. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    What case is the Titan based on?