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Rifles, Reloading, Optics, Equipment
Reloading
338-404 Jef
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 166343" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>BH,</p><p> </p><p>I would agree with most of what your saying but I would also like to add that close range accuracy as mentioned means very little, this is very dependant on the bullet your shooting, the twist in your barrel and the velocity range you are at with your load.</p><p> </p><p>Let me explain. With all of my Allen Magnums using VERY heavy for caliber bullets driven to velocity ranges normally used at moderate weight bullets I have ran into some special situations.</p><p> </p><p>With many specific rifles I would say they are 1/2 to 3/4 moa rifles at 100 yards. For example, one rifle I just tested before shipping to a customer which was chambered in my 7mm Allen Magnum. THis rifle, with its 34" barrel is capable of driving a 200 gr ULD RBBT to well over 3400 fps. With this velocity potential and with the length of this bullet and the jacket used, specially designed rifling is needed to get the most out of this combination.</p><p> </p><p>I set up at 100 yards with the top load which I felt was a good comfortable pressure load in this rifle, averaged 3448 fps.</p><p> </p><p>Five, 3 shot groups at 100 yards averaged 0.668" ctc. Not meeting my 1/2 moa group requirement. With my experience with this bullet and my wildcat I was not over concerned.</p><p> </p><p>Stepped back to 500 yards. 3, 3 shot groups averaged 1.885" ctc which is WELL under 1/2 moa at that range.</p><p> </p><p>Next I stepped her back to 1220 yards. SHot two three shot groups. First group was a hair over 7" ctc and the second was just a bit over 6". Now shooting conditions were ideal which is what I waited for for long range accuracy testing.</p><p> </p><p>My point is, just because a rifle/load combo is shooting 1/2 moa or even more at close range, that does not mean it is not completely up to the challange of accurately placing that bullet at long to extreme range.</p><p> </p><p>In my personal opinion, the 100 yard target range is there for bore sighting and thats about it, unless your working with a 100 or 200 yard BR rifle.</p><p> </p><p>It takes upwards of 300 yards for some of these bullets to go to sleep with the velocity, RPM and bullet lengths being used today. As such, you can not even get useful BC numbers until around 300 yards and out.</p><p> </p><p>I have had several customers call me saying their rifles were not shooting 1/2 moa at 100 yards. When I asked how they were shooting and what loads they were using I generally tell them to step back to 300 or better yet 500 yards. SO far, I have yet to have one not meet my 1/2 moa accuracy requirement at those ranges.</p><p> </p><p>Its just my opinion that just because a rifle is not a .1 or .2 rifle at 100 yards, that means very little as far as what the rifle will do at long range. Now will a 1 moa rifle be a 1/2 moa rifle at long range, generally not but I have seen enough 3/4 and 1/2 moa rifles print 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 and even 1/5 moa groups at 500 yards enough times to know that with certain bullets one should never give up on a load when seeing 1/2 to 3/4 moa groups at 100 yards. Test at long range before giving up on the load, often times, if your using a VLD or ULD type bullet, it will shoot to smaller moa levels at long range then close range, given the rifle is sound.</p><p> </p><p>Just my opinion, again, I agree with most of what you are saying, just wanted to add a bit extra.</p><p> </p><p>Kirby Allen(50)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 166343, member: 10"] BH, I would agree with most of what your saying but I would also like to add that close range accuracy as mentioned means very little, this is very dependant on the bullet your shooting, the twist in your barrel and the velocity range you are at with your load. Let me explain. With all of my Allen Magnums using VERY heavy for caliber bullets driven to velocity ranges normally used at moderate weight bullets I have ran into some special situations. With many specific rifles I would say they are 1/2 to 3/4 moa rifles at 100 yards. For example, one rifle I just tested before shipping to a customer which was chambered in my 7mm Allen Magnum. THis rifle, with its 34" barrel is capable of driving a 200 gr ULD RBBT to well over 3400 fps. With this velocity potential and with the length of this bullet and the jacket used, specially designed rifling is needed to get the most out of this combination. I set up at 100 yards with the top load which I felt was a good comfortable pressure load in this rifle, averaged 3448 fps. Five, 3 shot groups at 100 yards averaged 0.668" ctc. Not meeting my 1/2 moa group requirement. With my experience with this bullet and my wildcat I was not over concerned. Stepped back to 500 yards. 3, 3 shot groups averaged 1.885" ctc which is WELL under 1/2 moa at that range. Next I stepped her back to 1220 yards. SHot two three shot groups. First group was a hair over 7" ctc and the second was just a bit over 6". Now shooting conditions were ideal which is what I waited for for long range accuracy testing. My point is, just because a rifle/load combo is shooting 1/2 moa or even more at close range, that does not mean it is not completely up to the challange of accurately placing that bullet at long to extreme range. In my personal opinion, the 100 yard target range is there for bore sighting and thats about it, unless your working with a 100 or 200 yard BR rifle. It takes upwards of 300 yards for some of these bullets to go to sleep with the velocity, RPM and bullet lengths being used today. As such, you can not even get useful BC numbers until around 300 yards and out. I have had several customers call me saying their rifles were not shooting 1/2 moa at 100 yards. When I asked how they were shooting and what loads they were using I generally tell them to step back to 300 or better yet 500 yards. SO far, I have yet to have one not meet my 1/2 moa accuracy requirement at those ranges. Its just my opinion that just because a rifle is not a .1 or .2 rifle at 100 yards, that means very little as far as what the rifle will do at long range. Now will a 1 moa rifle be a 1/2 moa rifle at long range, generally not but I have seen enough 3/4 and 1/2 moa rifles print 1/2, 1/3, 1/4 and even 1/5 moa groups at 500 yards enough times to know that with certain bullets one should never give up on a load when seeing 1/2 to 3/4 moa groups at 100 yards. Test at long range before giving up on the load, often times, if your using a VLD or ULD type bullet, it will shoot to smaller moa levels at long range then close range, given the rifle is sound. Just my opinion, again, I agree with most of what you are saying, just wanted to add a bit extra. Kirby Allen(50) [/QUOTE]
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