338.06 VS 30.06 Ackley

[abnmike]

Am considering rebarreling my Model 70 30.06. Have killed Elk at 608yds with this gun but have had to pass on several great bulls at longer range due to its limitations. Do not want to have to have any work on the bolt face so the 338.06 or the 30.06 ackely seem like good choices with a shilling or douglas air gauge/fluted barrel.
Hand load using federal brass with 210 match primers and big game powder and Barnes tsx tipped bullets set out 5ths from the L+G's
Any suggestions???
abnmike

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

You can order a 338 Gibbs barrel from pac-nor that will be right at a 338 winchester and serve your purpose. Mine shoots the 225 accubond over 2800 fps with a .55 bc. That is a good elk load. I am working with the new 185 Barnes ttsx in it at around 3100 fps. It would also do well.

The Gibbs is all you can get out of a 30'06 case. I have them from 6mm to 338.

 

[trueblue]

Mike,
The cost to open up the boltface is minimal. In my opinion you would be best served for a longrange rig to open it up and build a 338 EDGE. You already have the LA. However, I am not familiar with the Model 70 as having any complications for doing an EDGE build.

 

[Trickymissfit]

go with the .338-06 AI. Savage and Weatherby both are soon to chamber rifles in the standard .338-06, and Remington will follow them as well. This means there'll be factory ammo on the shelf, and everytime you shoot a standard .338-06 round you'll be fireform a case in the Ackley chamber! The .338-06 has 85% of the power of a .338 mag, but with only 65% of the felt recoil. The Ackley chamber should pickup a little more power and increase the recoil about three to five percent. Still a win, win situation. The 30-06 AI is an often cussed and discussed subject. It never really put out a serious power gain over the standard case, but did seen to reduce the case growth.
gary

 

[Scot E]

go with the .338-06 AI. Savage and Weatherby both are soon to chamber rifles in the standard .338-06, and Remington will follow them as well. This means there'll be factory ammo on the shelf, and everytime you shoot a standard .338-06 round you'll be fireform a case in the Ackley chamber! The .338-06 has 85% of the power of a .338 mag, but with only 65% of the felt recoil. The Ackley chamber should pickup a little more power and increase the recoil about three to five percent. Still a win, win situation. The 30-06 AI is an often cussed and discussed subject. It never really put out a serious power gain over the standard case, but did seen to reduce the case growth.
gary

Do you know when these manf's are coming out with this cartridge?

How does the 338-06AI, or even the 338-06, compare to the 338 win mag in velocity?

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Scott, My 338 Gibbs will match many top velocities in the loading manuals for the 338 winchester but on average is about 75 fps slower than my real loads that I use. My 338 Gibbs is on average about 75 fps faster than my 338-06 imp. So my 338-06 imp runs 50-100 fps slower than most loads I see published in the reloading manuals for the 338 winchester. In reality about 150 fps difference from my actual loads that I use in my 338 winchester. hope that makes since and helps.

If they are coming out with a 338-06 I think the imp would be a good choice since you could buy cartridges over the counter that would shoot just fine for fireforming.

 

[Scot E]

Scott, My 338 Gibbs will match many top velocities in the loading manuals for the 338 winchester but on average is about 75 fps slower than my real loads that I use. My 338 Gibbs is on average about 75 fps faster than my 338-06 imp. So my 338-06 imp runs 50-100 fps slower than most loads I see published in the reloading manuals for the 338 winchester. In reality about 150 fps difference from my actual loads that I use in my 338 winchester. hope that makes since and helps.

If they are coming out with a 338-06 I think the imp would be a good choice since you could buy cartridges over the counter that would shoot just fine for fireforming.

That does help. Thank you.

I agree the AI would be a good option. I reload exclusively but for most of my guns I like loading for cartridges that I can buy over the counter if needed. This seems to fit the bill nicely for a good large game killer at 1/4 mile or a bit further.

Thanks,

 

[Trickymissfit]

Do you know when these manf's are coming out with this cartridge?

How does the 338-06AI, or even the 338-06, compare to the 338 win mag in velocity?

the Weatherby maybe out already, as they anounced it awhile back. Savage has been running an ongoing poll to see what the buying public thought, and the results were overwhelmingly in favor of it. If you own a long action Savage you can buy the barrel right now from Sharpshooter and a few others.

The .338-06 is listed in most loading manuals right now (somebody said awhile back that it was the single most popular wildcat chambering). Most manuals list it about 150 fps slower than the Win mag, but I'd say it closer to 225 fps slower. The Ackley chamber will give you about 75 to 100 fps greater velocity out of a 24" barrel. A 250 grain bullet will safely attain 2650 fps if not 2700fps out of a 24" barrel
gary

 

[bigngreen]

Would a guy be honestly extending his range with a 338-06, it looks like the BC's of the bullets that would be typical are similar and the launch speeds are about the same for their respective bullets so it looks to me like you have just added a little energy. To me you would really need to step up to something with more powder capacity like a 338 RUM to honestly extend your range.

 

[Scot E]

Would a guy be honestly extending his range with a 338-06, it looks like the BC's of the bullets that would be typical are similar and the launch speeds are about the same for their respective bullets so it looks to me like you have just added a little energy. To me you would really need to step up to something with more powder capacity like a 338 RUM to honestly extend your range.

I haven't ran the numbers but to the OP's topic I would agree range may not be more than what he is already getting with the 30-06. But a bigger hole, more penetration and more energy is a nice addition, all in a package that has manageable recoil and carries well for field use. For my use this would be a perfect mid range carry gun and the big boy .338's would be used for the real long range stuff.

 

[abnmike]

You can order a 338 Gibbs barrel from pac-nor that will be right at a 338 winchester and serve your purpose. Mine shoots the 225 accubond over 2800 fps with a .55 bc. That is a good elk load. I am working with the new 185 Barnes ttsx in it at around 3100 fps. It would also do well.

The Gibbs is all you can get out of a 30'06 case. I have them from 6mm to 338.

LTLR,
have you any data on minute of angle for the 185 Barnes or the 160?? Accuracy is going to determine my choice as long as I can have fewer than 124" of angle for shots out to 800 plus yards.
"One man can evaluate anothers experiences based soley on his own"
Detroit shooting board lawyer

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Mike, The accuracy MOA is well less than .5" since I am shooting one hole groups at 100 yards with the 185 TTSX. My tikka 338 winchester puts three shot groups through the kill zone of cardboard deer silhouettes at 800 yards so they are very accurate bullets. The BC is .432 for the 185 ttsx and I am pushing it 3220 fps. The 338 Gibbs is pushing it around 3100 fps in load developement. It is also one hole groups at 100 yards but I have not gone beyond 100 yet with that rifle since I am only developing loads at this point to get my velocity spreads down for long range. At 3100 fps at my elevation of 5500 feet it drops 116 inches at 800 yards with a 300 yard zero. That would be 13.9 MOA drop at 800 yards. It will easily kill big game at 800 yards and that is about where I call it with these light carry rifles and light bullets. For longer ranges I go heavier bullets with higher BC's more for the wind and retained energy than the drop.

I have a swaro BR reticle on the 338 winchester and I have aiming points with it well beyond 800 yards so kills to there are very easy and quick without turning clicks.

 

[Scot E]

Mike, The accuracy MOA is well less than .5" since I am shooting one hole groups at 100 yards with the 185 TTSX. My tikka 338 winchester puts three shot groups through the kill zone of cardboard deer silhouettes at 800 yards so they are very accurate bullets. The BC is .432 for the 185 ttsx and I am pushing it 3220 fps. The 338 Gibbs is pushing it around 3100 fps in load developement. It is also one hole groups at 100 yards but I have not gone beyond 100 yet with that rifle since I am only developing loads at this point to get my velocity spreads down for long range. At 3100 fps at my elevation of 5500 feet it drops 116 inches at 800 yards with a 300 yard zero. That would be 13.9 MOA drop at 800 yards. It will easily kill big game at 800 yards and that is about where I call it with these light carry rifles and light bullets. For longer ranges I go heavier bullets with higher BC's more for the wind and retained energy than the drop.

I have a swaro BR reticle on the 338 winchester and I have aiming points with it well beyond 800 yards so kills to there are very easy and quick without turning clicks.

LTLR,

With your 338-06AI, what distances do you feel comfortable on game compared to the 338 Win Mag mentioned above and with what bullet weight? I would think that the 338-06AI would be good close to 800 yards if I used higher BC bullets. The new Hornady .338 285gr AMP bullets with a BC of .720 is sure intriguing but I may be pushing the bullet weight-to-velocity window a bit far for a non-magnum round like the 338-06AI, as in a lighter bullet with more velocity may be better than a heavyweight with lower velocity.

 

[Long Time Long Ranger]

Scot, you are hitting it about right on the money from my experiences. It is easy at times to create a load that goes well beyond the rifles capability to shoot. In other words if your shooting an 800 yard rifle there is no sense shooting 1200 yard capable bullets in it. Better off to go light and fast and be way more effective within the range your rifle is best suited. You can use a ranging reticle scope and forget clicks with the light, fast bullets. I just don't get into clicks under 800 yards on big game animals. Coyotes or smaller stuff like ground hogs or prarie dogs where you got to be more precise then turning clicks can get you dead on.

I am confident in kills approaching 800 yards with a 338-06 AI with 185 Barnes ttsx bullets. The 210 Scirroco with a .510 or so BC is also a very good one that I use in my gibbs and 338-06 AI. The scirroco is a tougher bullet than the accubond from what I have seen. The 225 AB at .55 bc is the heaviest I would consider for that rifle. It is a very good cartridge for any animal in north america. You will be amazed at how accurate this size 338's are.