.308 Winchester range?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by WEATHERBY460, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. WEATHERBY460

    WEATHERBY460 Well-Known Member

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    What is an acceptable range for shooting the .308 winchester accuratly with a 168 grain bullet? Thanks
     
  2. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    1,000-1,250 yards with the right load, rifle, and shooter that can get it there. I mean, there have been snipers who have taken further shots than that, but I think 1,250 is pushing it for a .308...

    I certainly wouldn't try to kill anything larger than a deer @ 1,000 with it, personally. Deer are pretty thin-skinned and if you use a clean shoulder shot, you should be ok. With a good hot load you should be ok.

    My 168gr load is pushing right around 2,775 out the muzzle.
     

  3. MMERSS

    MMERSS Well-Known Member

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    I shoot 168's regularly up to 1000 and everything in between.

    Shooting them accurately? Well that’s up to you.

    Have fun!
     
  4. aramarine6

    aramarine6 Well-Known Member

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    600 yards for your average joe. However if you have a good understanding of external ballistics and wind deflection I'd say 1200. Extremely proficient shooters knowing exactly what the wind is doing and how fast it is moving, I'd say 1600 yards. Some will say 800-1000 because they are citing military publications that state the "max effective range" of the 7.62X51 NATO is 800(US Army) to 1000(USMC) I personally believe that the military is severly down playing the capablilties of this round. I'd prefer the 175 grain projectiles past 600 tho. The projectile is more than capable. But like stated above.... Are you? At those distances the slightest shooter error will be magnified.
     
  5. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    You might need a rather special scope for some of those ranges too...

    With a 200 yard zero and 168gr boat tail bullet, you need to dial
    up 37.6 min for 1000 yards 5mph cross wind = 5.1min wind hold
    55.1 min for 1200 yards 5mph cross wind = 6.9min wind hold
    76.8 min for 1400 yards 5mph cross wind = 8.3min wind hold
    102.7 min for 1600 yards 5mph cross wind = 9.6min wind hold

    Deduct 20 min off those if using a 20 minute rail, that is still more than 80min of "spare" elevation needed. That is quite a scope !

    Energy level is approaching 22LR levels past 1000 yards too.

    A 243 AI shooting 105gr Bergers is considerably flatter shooting and has similar energy beyond 1000 yards. Hopefully your just shooting at paper, steel or varmints ?
     
  6. MudRunner2005

    MudRunner2005 Well-Known Member

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    Also, if you handload, or even if you don't, and you have an iPhone....I highly recommend the BulletDrop+ app. I use it, and it works great for me.
     
  7. aramarine6

    aramarine6 Well-Known Member

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    If your shooting targets then energy means nothing. If your shooting a 308 win at game at anything past 600 then I'd say find a better caliber. However, energy doesn't translate into "killing power" Bullet placement and bullet selection are the deciding factors in killing game. Also for long range work a MIL RAD scope will make a huge difference. the 308 winchester isnt the end all be all caliber for long range shooting. There are many that are better. But if you are a beginner shooter the 308 will outshoot the shooter.
     
  8. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    How so ? Its just a scale ? Is it not more important that the turret and reticle scale be matched ? What can I not do with my FFP MOA reticle in my 6-24 Vortex scope that someone else can do with a MIL reticle ? I think the number of mil trained shooters is considerably smaller than those who use MOA.

     
  9. aramarine6

    aramarine6 Well-Known Member

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    Very simple. The scales are not equal. 1 MOA doesnt equal 1 MIL. At 1000 yards according to my data book. its 48.1 MOA and only 14.0 MILS. Also a MIL is a more precise measurement. My scope has the ability to see 20 mils in the reticle. I don't need to dial.
     
  10. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    Yup, that would be like saying that a dimension in mm is a more precise measurement than in inches... Truth is that one can measure equally precisely in any unit, as long as one has a sufficient number of significant digits. And that is said by myself who was educated in metric and now working in inch land....

    [​IMG]

    Usually what matters is what increment you have on your turret and in the 1/4MOA vs 1/10th Mil game 0.25" is smaller than 0.36" which means that it is generally easier for someone with MOA turrets to make a small adjustment than it is for someone with 1/10th mil turrets.

    If you want to claim that A is better than B you had better bring some evidence. Math is math.
     
  11. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    How is a MIL a 'more' precise measurement? One MIL is equal to roughly 3.6" (3.44 MOA) at 100 yards, 36" at 1k. One MOA is equal to roughly 1.047" at 100 yards and 10.47" at 1k. As long as the operator knows the value of the one he/she is using and how to use it I am failing to see how one is more precise than the other.

    Most MIL scope have 5 MILS equalling roughly 180" of holdover at 1k. Many MOA scopes have 20 MOA equalling roughly 210" of holdover at 1k.
     
  12. aramarine6

    aramarine6 Well-Known Member

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    Your right, math is math. I'm speaking from an experience standpoint. Not from a mathmatician standpoint. I started out using MOA scopes when I was younger. I then joined the service and only used MIL RAD. I wouldn't go back to MOA. But thats my preference. I prefer having an optic that I dont have to dial for distance up to and including 1000 yards. Also another reason I stopped shooting the 308 past 1000 is because using a ballistically superior round such as the 338 RUM made it that much easier. Less dialing, less holdover, less winddrift. It is my personal belief MIL RAD scopes are the best choice for long range work. Anyway it appears we have gotten off topic.
     
  13. Michael Eichele

    Michael Eichele Well-Known Member

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    Don't let the naysayers fool you. There is a lot more potential in the 308 than many old schoolers will have you think. The biggest thing that hold the 308 back is its reputation for 1: short barrels, 2: 168 grain and lighter pills and 3: older load data with older powders. Given 24-26" barrels, heavy bullets and modern powders there is plenty to be desired. That said you can take the 308 to well over 1k on paper and approaching 1k for deer size critters. At many hunting altitudes there are loads the approach or even exceed 1000' pounds of energy at 1k. With its insane accuracy it is a worthy caliber/cartridge.

    Enjoy!
     
  14. westcliffe01

    westcliffe01 Well-Known Member

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    And the reason for your wide field of view would be reduced magnification ? 10X ? I'm afraid that the majority of people on this site who make long distance kills on game animals will disagree with your approach. Unlike enemy combatants, at that long range one has sufficient time to carefully calculate out current weather, altitude, temperature, range, wind and dial it into the scope. I personally use my FFP reticle a lot, but that is because my shots are closer at 140-400 yards and the coyotes I am after are small and never cease to move.

    Provided the OP has a scope with matching turret/reticle scale and for 99.9% of us lacking MC training, there is no advantage whatsoever in going with a Mil scale. Having said that, one generally has the choice to go either way on any decent scope so it is a matter of personal preference.