.308 Winchester and .30-06

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Noob_71, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Noob_71

    Noob_71 Member

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    I was looking through some published trajectory tables in the "Shooter's Bible". The highest published muzzle velocity for a commercially available .308 Winchester load at 178 grains is the 178-grain A-Max from Hornady with a muzzle velocity of 2,965 fps. The highest muzzle velocity I could find for a .30-06 178-grain bullet was somewhere in the 2,800 fps range. In general, the absolute top listed muzzle velocities at every given bullet weight showed the .308 holding it's ground against the .30-06. This makes absoultely no sense to me at all.

    In fact, with the exception of the "Accelerator" loads, the flattest shooting (at 400 yards) .308 Winchester load was flatter shooting than any .30-06 load I could find. How does shortening a cartridge by half an inch, thereby decreasing case capacity, increase potential for muzzle velocity and flatness of trajectory?
     
  2. jcpython357

    jcpython357 Well-Known Member

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    Noob, The 308 is a higher pressure cartridge, Jay
     

  3. Darryl Cassel

    Darryl Cassel Well-Known Member

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    Noob

    The loading manuals I have all state that the 06 will achieve faster velocity with the max loads listed.

    For instance, the 168 gr in the 308 will produce a max listed velocity of 2754 FPS in the new Hodgden manual while the 30/06 has a max listing of 2897 FPS with the same bullet.

    The 06 in the other manuals I have list the 06 as getting between 100 and 150 FPS faster velocity with most bullets tested.
    You can shoot a 180 gr in the 06 faster by 100 FPS then you can a 175 gr in the 308. This is per the new Hodgden manual.

    Barrel length in the "tested rifles" can make a difference. If the 06 has a 20 to 22" barrel and the 308 has a 24 to 28" barrel that was tested, then the advantage "can" go to the 308.
    Both being equal barrel lengths, the 06 will create a faster velocity most every time.

    DC
     
  4. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

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    Noob,

    That is a misprint. I believe the published velocity of the 178gr AMAX is 2700 fps. I don't feel there is that much difference between an 06 and .308, so my vote goes towards the .308.

    Uses short action, less powder, less recoil and more commerically available match ammo.

    Just my $0.02 worth. But to each his own
     
  5. DANTEC

    DANTEC Well-Known Member

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    if you use 30.06 in rather tight base chamber ( origianl military chambering is very broad ) you can easy increase the pressure at the level of the 25.06 ( 63000 PSI ) ang get more velocity

    another design problem of the 30.06 is slow shoulder angle , you need to keep you headspace near minimum to avoid any important moove of the case , with sharp aangle you have less problem .

    But a 30.06 with a good chambering job ina good barrel is able to drive bullet fast enought to go far .

    good shooting

    DAN TEC
     
  6. thecowboyace

    thecowboyace Member

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    165 180
    In looking at Sierra's bullet lineup, the 180 grain bullets can be pushed to 2800fps in the '06 whereas the .308 Winchester one has to drop down to the 165 grain bullet to get the 2800fps. Bullet weight equal the 30-06 comes in nearly 200fps faster than the .308 Winchester. Now Sierra is listing fps about 100-150 fps slower than Hornady in the heavier bullets. I will say that one shooting the 110 grain bullet in the '06 goes 300fps faster than the same bullet in the .308 Winchester
     
  7. Jeff In TX

    Jeff In TX Well-Known Member

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    When I compare a .308 to 30-06 I find them almost identical.

    So for me, the 308 is really just a 30-06 WSM.
     
  8. demarpaint

    demarpaint Well-Known Member

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    The .308 is supposed to be more accurate, the .06 is a little faster. Where the .06 out shines the .308 is with the heavier bullets.
     
  9. Jwolfmarkum

    Jwolfmarkum New Member

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    I asked every one i knew what the best long range rifel was for hunting (besides the 50 cal snipe lol) and i got some different quotes some say 30-06 some say 7mm and finlly 2 people at the bimart sporting goods sayed that the 270 win was thar fav so i looked into it in that shooters bible and it sayed at 300 yards the 30-06 has an 11 inch drop 7mm 10 inch and 270 win 6.5 and 270 does not drop 11 inch untill 400 yards can some one tell me what 308 win dorp at 300 and 400 yards is? i got a 270 win cuz the charts says it out shoots the 30-06 on the drop but you make the 30-06 sound good plz tell me were the 30-06 ,308 win and the 270 win stand aginst each other and if you can impact at 300 yards i would be very gratefull thanks
    joe
    [​IMG]
    Jwolfmarkum@hotmail.com
    p.s.plz send it to email i may not be abile to find this site agin lol ty
     
  10. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    ironwolfjoe, comparing cartridges from a ballistic chart is very misleading. For deer to elk size game and 300yds, just about any hunting cartridge will work. Just do the 45-70/ 22250 comparison. Which do you think will be more effective at dropping a moose? The 22-250 usually have more "print" energy at 200yds.

    There are a varieties of thoughts on what works best. Some like heavy bullets at mod. speeds, others like the super zappers - high vel and light bullets. They both work if you put the bullet in the boiler room.

    As to which is a better killer, I have compared notes with many hunters and you can read data in all hunting mag which clearly shows that there is no cut and dry "drop'em in their tracks" cartridge.

    I have shot deer with the same '06 load that dropped and others that ran a bit. All were hit is the same general area and of varying size. The big ones dropped and the smaller ones ran off.

    Is the '06 a weak cartridge? Nope. Just animals are unpredictable in how they will succumb.

    Trajectory between the three is also moot. Just about any load will work within reasonable holdover out to 300yds. On this board we are concerned about going much further.

    There are differences once you get past 400 to 500yds. Wind drift, retained vel/impact vel, bullet design become very important. At extended ranges, I lean towards the 270 because of the higher BC and SD bullets when the mid weight 30cal bullets (150 to 165gr).

    I am now shooting a 6.5-06 with 140gr SST bullets and there is simply no comparison on impact energy with a '06 and 165gr SST at 500 and 600yds. The 6.5 is way higher. Although a lighter bullet, the BC is much higher then the 30's so slows down less. Impact vel and thus energy is higher and the high SD penetrates like there is no tomorrow.

    The 270 would be similar when using 150gr SST or ballistic tips.

    If you hunt in windy conditions, I would suggest you go with the 270 and 150gr poly tipped bullets. Launch them accurately at 2850 to 2950fps and it will do everything you want plus have the ability to shoot through windy conditions much better.

    Jerry
     
  11. Pete Lincoln

    Pete Lincoln Well-Known Member

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    Well if you pick a rifle that you can use anywhere in the world, always find ammo for it and with the right bullet choice it will do for about any game then the 30-06 has to be near the top of the list. I get 2890 FPS with 165gr Hornady light magnum SST and 2850 FPS with 180gr BTSP Interlock hornady light mag out of my Border barrels 5R 30-06. its got a 21.5 inch barrel. for general deer work there isn't much to choose between the 06 and the 308, both work well. the 06 has the advantage when it comes to heavier bullets and tougher game, Elk, Moose, Bears and some tougher African stuff. I know the 06 works better on these European wild boar than the 308 does with the same bullets, the little extra wack seems to be just the ticket.
    you won't go wrong with either..
    Pete
     
  12. cdmorten

    cdmorten Well-Known Member

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    Decisions, decisions...I went with a .308 because they are inherently more accurate than the 30-06. Not a lot of difference in the ballistics either. The .308 does what I need it to do which is drill targets between 100 and 600 yards at the range, (about 500 rounds/year) and take out some whitetails, (about 2 rounds/year). So I like the .308 because it's a pleasure to shoot and does the job. I wouldn't get too wrapped around the axle about ballistics. My friends 30-06 on the other hand has some major recoil. It's a lighter gun than mine though. So I went with the .308.

    The good news is that if you don't think the .308 or .270 has enough umph to it then you can always buy a 300WM down the road. It's always good to have a backup anyway.