308 or 284

Discussion in 'The Basics, Starting Out' started by straightshooter, Jun 26, 2010.

  1. straightshooter

    straightshooter Well-Known Member

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    I want a long range target/hunting rifle. I'm an elk hunter, so this rifle needs to be able to cleanly take an elk at 650 yards. The rifle can not weigh more than 12lbs total with scope. I will be target shooting 99% of the time, but this will be my do all rifle. I reload for myself and my shooting buddies. I have been shooting my 223 out past 1000 yard every weekend. I have no problem making hits at this range once I have walked my bullets in. I am in the process of learning to make wind calls for first round hits. I feel that this is were the higher bc of the .284 will help.

    The rifle will probably be built on a Savage 16 action,but that is not set in stone yet. This will be my first semi custom build. Any advice is appreciated!
     
  2. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to consider is how much recoil do you want to deal with and if you want a muzzle break or not. If you want minimal recoil and no muzzle break look to the 284, possibly 280AI . If you are not against a break you might even look to the 338 like the 338 RUM.
     

  3. JARHEAD1371

    JARHEAD1371 Well-Known Member

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    I have a 7mm SAUM (Short Action Ultra Mag) that I use for deer and antelope. I'm pushing the 180 gr Berger at 2940 fps and excellent accuracy out as far as I care to shoot. Something like this would more than meet your criteria.

    Ryan
     
  4. 300R

    300R Well-Known Member

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    I think the 300 wsm would be a great choice,i don't like the idea of a brake on a multi purpose rifle so i would have it threaded and capped and use the brake for bench work unless you like hunting with ear muffs.I was getting 2950 with 200gr smk from a 28" tube.
     
  5. straightshooter

    straightshooter Well-Known Member

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    I have considered the wsm, but this rifle will be mainly a target rifle. I would like to keep the reloading cost down. I will be selling my 223 and a Ruger Hawkeye 308 to fund this build. This will be my only rifle for a couple years, till I save the money for the big gun. As I stated, I shoot every weekend and don't want the reloading cost to cut into my next project.

    The short mags are still of interest and not ruled out, but just cost that much more. I do like the extra performance and would consider a 7mm wsm. I like the versatility of the Savage rifle, but I am actually a crf guy. If I could find a smith and after market stock, I would convert my Ruger to a 284 and be done with it.

    Has anyone shot a large bull elk at 650 yards or farther with a 308 winchester, and if yes how did it turn out? I have shot the 308 for a while but have never taken it hunting. I just don't have the confidence in this caliber.
     
  6. 300R

    300R Well-Known Member

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  7. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    Jarhead was absolutely right then if your looking for a good target rifle first. The 7mm SAUM is the round to get. I started a thread in the main forum 7mm SAUM Vs 7/300wsm vs 7mm wsm and I think I had the links in there to some great articles. From what I gather the 7mm saum does pretty much the same as the others with less powder and the rem brass is cheap plus its a factory die so no custom wildcat dies needed. +1 for the 7mm saum its what Im building off my tikka action.
     
  8. groper

    groper Well-Known Member

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    if keeping cost down is a consideration, then look at the 6.5x47 lapua, 260rem, or getting more expensive, 6.5x284. Excellent high BC bullets available, and proven very accurate with low recoil that you can shoot all day to 1000yds very accurately...
     
  9. Many calibers would work, but for your application I'd choose the 6.5x284. gun)
     
  10. straightshooter

    straightshooter Well-Known Member

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    I feel, in the area that I hunt that 650 yards will be the longest shot that I will have to take. I have seen elk shot at 75 yards with a 7mm Remington magnum, and still make it a long way. Our hunting group has a rule, if they are still moving, we are still shooting. Once they go down they aren't allowed to get back up, and yes, I have seen that happen too. Elk tenaciously hang on to life, they are absolutely amazing animals. I have seen a recent video of an elk shot with a 6.5-284, so I admit it can be done, but I just don't feel comfortable with these small caliber bullets. The .284 caliber is about my lowest limit for elk hunting.
     
  11. pyroducksx3

    pyroducksx3 Well-Known Member

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    I would again recommend the 7mm saum for a short action and long action the 280AI. you would be more than happy woth the balance of power and managable recoil. I talked to a well known gunsmith on this site and recommeded the 280 AI over the 7mm rem mag.
     
  12. straightshooter

    straightshooter Well-Known Member

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    I have been going through this site looking for info on caliber selection for my purpose. I am leaning towards a Savage rifle in a 300wsm caliber. The extra punch over the 308 or 284 is never a bad thing. I always seem to come back to the 300wsm, I guess that means something.
     
  13. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Well... I guess I will throw my .02 in. What is your avg. shot distance? With this info and the fact that 650 seems to be your longest thresh hold, then I assume that you are shooting shorter distances on average. I would choose the .284 for 2 reasons. 1.Cool factor. Very under rated and capable round. 2.If you look on 6mmbr.com, you will find an article about a guy who shot a 1000yrd record in the light gun class. Something has to be said for its accuracy. I have looked into this round quite extensively. It will be good to about 800yrds with a 168 to 180 grain 7mm bullet. Between the 168 Berger and the 162 A-max, these would do the job you are looking for. You will also be loading about 15 to 20 grains less in powder allowing 1lbs. of powder to go much further than with a WSM. I have almost convinced myself to go the following route:

    6BR for short and long range varmint, 284/7mm for 0-800 deer and 338 of some type for 500 to 1500yards for deer/elk. Right now I own a 300WSM and love it, but to do it all over again, 7mm/.284 would have been a better route IMO. I too have a Savage and love it. I would more than likely buy the barrels of choosing and use the action I currently own for a switch barrel set up. I also have a short barrel 308 that shoots very well, but eventually will find its way to the back of the gun cabinet. Hope this helps. Just a little FYI, the 308 with good shot placement using a 180 to 190 grain bullet with careful loading will do the trick to 650yrds. With a 1:10 twist, 26" minimum barrel length using RL17, should make for an elk to have a really bad day!:cool:

    Tank
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2010
  14. TOM H

    TOM H Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to butt in but there is two articles on the 284 @ 6mmbr.com. the 284 that set a record has a 31" long barrel velocity 2900fps with 180gr VLD the other has a 25" barrel @ 2990fps with 160gr bullets.

    Since I'm a hunter first I like to keep my elk/deer rifle no heavier than maybe 9.25lbs makes for a nice packing rifle. I've been playing a 280AI and 284 both have #3 contour Lilja barrels 27" long and are build on long actions. I'm just in the working up loads for both rifles and haven't shot past 300yds yet and I must say the 280AI is a nice round not sure which one I'll use on elk this year. I also shoot a 300WSM has a Broghton 5c barrel 1/12 twist mainly set up for the 165/168gr bullets only problem I see with the WSM is magazine length with some of the VLD type bullets. I think you can build a good hunting rifle that will work as a target rifle you may have to make some compromise on bullets and throating depending on what action etc.

    If I was building something on a Savage action I'd have my hunting barrel then a target barrel somethin like a 6br for the VLD won't have to worry about recoil be less cost to shooting. Just my .02