300 wsm vs 308 or other

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by upstaterider2003, Dec 13, 2007.

  1. upstaterider2003

    upstaterider2003 Member

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    I am spending a lot of time looking for the ideal package.:( It seems every time I get set on a rifle I end up finding a\ someone pointing out something is better.:rolleyes:

    Here are my choices. Brother in law has a new unused weatherby 338 with a great Leuopold scope 2 boxes of ammo $1000.

    online there is and an unlimited supply of custom semi custom and various styles of 308.

    I was turned onto 300 WSM becuase of longer reach and flatter trajectory...

    Here is what I want to do.

    I want to hunt and be lethal at the longest possible range. I thought that range was 1000 yards... but.. a lot of arguing goes on when you dare say you want to take a deer at 1000 yards. Not sure that I wll have an opportunity to but....want the option.

    I also want to compete in long range... so that is why I liked the 300 WSM lethal to 1000 yards but legal for Shooting competitions...

    308 is supposed to be enough for both but hunting limits tend to be inside of 600 yards. 300 wsm is supposed to be both but not as flexible for ranges etc...

    what to do what to do???? The 338 is available but I am told it kicks to hard, will destroy the meat.. and does not even fit into competition...

    sooo HELLLLP!:confused: what to do?

    Budget is fairly flexible but I am looking for .5moa or better from one gun... not 2 guns...
     
  2. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    Well assuming that the 338 is a 338 Win mag on the Mark-V action you could have it rechambered to 338Edge and shoot out to 1000yds on elk if the chance came up !! but thats gonna cost a couple hundred dollars more than the $1000 hes asking , still a good deal. If the gun is the
    33-378 then that is a big cannon and would be all thats needed.

    as for the 300WSM vs the 308 , well the 300 WSM is gonna win every fight they get into ballisticaly , but the barrel is gonna wear out faster , the ammo cost more , it kicks harder , but for deer at 1000yds its a better gun that the 308 if you can shoot it.

    Any particular reason that your wanting just the 308 or 300WSM? , look at the ballistics between the 300WSM shooting a 210gr Berger and the 280 Ackley shooting s 162 gr A-max , the 280 wins the drop and wind drift and still has plenty of thump to kill deer at 1K all this with less recoil , and decient barrel life. Hell my 260 with 140 gr bullets has more thump and way flatter trajectory and way less wind drift than the 308 with 175 gr Match Kings and kicks less.

    If you look around you can find some used guns for a decient price that guys built just to kill deer at 1000yds , it doesen't take a cannon shooting a spear at 4000fps , but it helps. The 7mm Rem mag , 300 win mag , 280 and 280 ackley all will shoot reliabily to 1000yds and have enought power to cleanly kill deer.
     

  3. crittergitter

    crittergitter Well-Known Member

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    I suggest spending much time browsing this site, especially the basics and starting out section. Put a lot of time into learning the characteristics of the rifles, cartridges, bullets, etc., that you are considering and your choice will be easier. You cannot accomplish your long range goals without knowing your equipment expertly anyway. Also, if you rush into your decision, you may not be happy with it six months down the road. I think you would do well to get a good factory rifle in a middle of the road caliber, learn to load for it well enough to make it shoot sub M.O.A. groups, and then use it until the perfect gun becomes obvious. What do you currently hunt, and what implements do you use? How long have you been hunting?

    Good luck.
     
  4. upstaterider2003

    upstaterider2003 Member

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    thanks

    Thanks for the comments.
    I hunt white tail in northern NY adirondacks Farm land
    I have enough experience to know that so far shooting 200 yards with a 280, scoped and off hand offers little challenge... I was hunting hand gun iron sights to add some degree of difficulty but that got me every deer I shot at including a slow walking deer at 150 yards. 45LC with corbon plus P ammo.

    Bottom line I will spend more time on a range but do not want to own 2 guns or trade them up every year or so...or at least it I don't think I will:)

    300wsm ballistics beat a 308 for terminal velocity and accuracy and I have heard its kick is "not too bad" I wanted a 300 or 308 so I can shoot competition meets at 1000 yards...

    the 308 has little kick I understand... but I also hear that kick is all relative.......

    sooo with that said...I am also looking for ammo that I can re load and that is relatively common to find.... the 338 was a Mark V as you stated with a great scope... adding a couple hundred to blue print is not an issue either... BUt I am told it kicks worse than a 300 wsm or 300 wm...

    when you speak of barrel life how many rounds are you talking about? 500? 1000?

    I thought I would get about 100 replies on this sight... I mentioned shooting a deer at 1000 yards on a long range target sight and got harassed for days... :eek: but a lot of talk.. with little/ few suggestions...
    I will look up a 338 edge and see what it is all about.
     
  5. Sig220

    Sig220 Member

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    Looks like you have gotten excellant advice so far!!

    Thought I would throw out my experiences and maybe they would help you along as well.

    I shoot .308 and 300WSM rifles almost exclusively. I don't have the budget nor do I see the open country to use anything "bigger". I admire those that do and can!!

    I rely most on the 300WSM for my elk hunting although I use it for deer and hogs as well on occasion. My first elk was a cow taken at 685 yards in CO.
    I used 150gn TSX which are accurate in my Remy 700 off the shelf gun. You have to load your own and experiment with seating depth to find the sweet spot. As for as kick or recoil, it is a little more then a .308 but not a sharp uncomfortable recoil. Even off the bench and bags it is manageable. BTW, I am not a big (5-9, 180) or young guy (52) and I can shoot it as long as I have ammo!! As for as barrel life, I don't have a clue I know I have shot mine around 150 times in 2 years mostly at the range, as all the animals I have taken have been 1 shot DRT's. I may buy a spare barrel, as I see new take offs for less then $100 all the time. I would expect the barrel to be shorter then the .308's, as it pushes that 150 grain at at 3200fps plus.

    My .308's are both in Remy 600 and 700 models and I have a few FAL's, none of them give me a problem with recoil. The 700 is a "mountain rifle", lightweight with a 21" tube. I consider both of the .308 bolt guns to be backups for my CO trips, but I don't consider them to be in the "range" of the 300WSM. The 600 has a muzzle blast that is a experience!!

    I don't shoot any true competitions, so I can be of no help there. My only reccomendation is to buy all the scope you can afford, finding one that will have a "true" zero can be a adventure! I went fairly cheap there and have been lucky that it holds its zero and is repeatable.

    A buddy uses a .300 RUM, and sees a lot more velocity then the .300wsm, of course he burns a lot more powder!

    Maybe get a hold of your friends and shoot their guns to find your limit on the recoil you want to deal with and then choose from there.

    Good Luck!
     
  6. upstaterider2003

    upstaterider2003 Member

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    ok leaning towards 300 wsm

    thanks
    i am leaning to the 300wsm again.
    I tend to have a higher tolerance for all things that go bang... (shoot 45LC magnum like rounds from a pistol with western style wood grips and will shoot it as long as my money holds out...)
    rifles? Kick is what it is. I am 40, about 6-1 and a bit lighter than you but know darn well when I take a 1000 yard shot at anything I will be on the ground with a bi pod or other support... so I am not concerned with recoil there as it will have to pass through most of my body prone vs knocking my shoulder while standing up... sooo...
    thanks again... I must admit I tend to over do anything with when it comes to power. :eek:

    I am financing this gun by selling off a 1000 CC Italian sport bike...:( but my knees and family time suggest a gun is better for me... cuz the kids will also be getting a rifle (trifecta) to shoot with me... the wife too... shooting is about to become a family affair. 1000 cc was more than I ever needed but it looked so damn cool and had a ground thumping sound (over do it. you see?):D

    I need a hobby where it keeps me home (reloading) and all of us at the range together... theory works for me anyhow.:D
     
  7. Strick9

    Strick9 Well-Known Member

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    Upstate ,

    I have hunted with a lot of calibers, from .223,243, 30-06,7 mag,300 wm, You will not be dissapointed with the 300 wsm .. I have not delved into the 338s or greater for one reason.. The 300 wsm is... acurate,accurate,accurate, factory ammo is available and reasonable, it kills dead,dead,dead. It is forgiving, if you hit back, or low inside the ribs. It is fast, and to me , A guy with the same frame, does not kick..but that goes back to my hunting with various calibers..Kind Regards..
     
  8. squirrelduster

    squirrelduster Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you have recieved great advice so far.
    I have a 300 win mag rem 700 that is not blue printed but shoots real well. I recently replaced the stock with one from Darrel Holland and it was heavier than the original stock but absolutely kicks the shit out of you. I couldn't shoot the rifle any more. It would come off of the bags 7 or 8 inches when you touch it off.
    I didn't know what to do so I did a bunch of research and found a muzzle brake at Brownells manufactured by OPS, Inc. It is used by the SEALS and other special forces. The 300 is now the best shooting gun I have ever shot. All of the horror stories of loud and all that are not true with this brake.
    What I am getting at is you could make the 300 wsm or the 338 into mild recoil guns when you are not competing in target matches by adding a brake. We were shooting at 704 yards this morning and you could see the bullet impact through the scope. Kicks less than my 243.
    Good luck with your decision.
     
  9. James Jones

    James Jones Well-Known Member

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    the recoil from a 300 WSM in a 10-12lb gun isin't bad at all probably about like the standard 270 factory rem 700 , assuming that you have a good pad on it and the stock fits you well. The 300 WSM will serve you well on deer out to and past 1000yds and elk that far if the conditions are perfect , loaded with a good high BC bullet like the 220 SMK or 210 Berger it should do well in some shoot comps as well.

    All that said about the 300WSM , the 7mmWSM will do and with the higher BC bullets will shoot flatter and have less wind drift at long range thats a big help in matches. The barrel life will be a little bit shorter but unless your shooting the gun a couple hundered times a month it should last you at least a year and a half.

    Now that I own a 260 rem I'll harp on what a great round it is , balisticaly it will shoot with or a little better than your 300WSM (it flat our smokes the 308) and does it with about half the recoil probably twice the barrel life of the WSM , less expensive to reload for and it has all the energy that a big deer and stand out to 700yds. Your wife and kids will enjoy shooting it even in a 8lb gun let alone a 10-12lber It will feed from the mag easly when chambered in a short action Rem , the same thing can be said for the 7-08
    Basicaly what I'm getting at is that you don't "need" all that power to shoot long range .

    As for the Weatherby , well they are great actions and capinle of making a fine accurate gun , but you will be limited on your aftermarket selection of goodies like with the Rem 700 has , and it will never regain it cost especialy after it hase been trued up. But if you are wanting a round that has more power then any of the 338's shooting a 300gr Sierra Match King bullet out at 2600 +fps will work great.
     
  10. crittergitter

    crittergitter Well-Known Member

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    Have you considered rechambering or rebarreling your current 280 to 280 Ackley Improved? You'll shoot nearly as flat as the 300 WSM with near the same terminal results. It won't cost as much as a whole new custom gun and it will hold more rounds in the mag. You will need to load for it anyway if you shoot long range, but you can shoot factory 280 remingtons in a pinch for close range work.
     
  11. Ron5050

    Ron5050 Member

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    I am a recent convert to the .260 Rem also. With 140 gr. is a real deer slayer. I have had a custom 6.5/06 fo a number of years.
    They burn less powder and make a lot less noise. But reach out across open fields for whitetails.
     
  12. BountyHunter

    BountyHunter Writers Guild

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    I have shot the 300 WSM comptetitively for 6 yrs now. I have two and building another. I also hunt with the 300 WSM.

    It is a top notch 1k BR caliber for sure. We cannot explain it but, the 300 WSM is having uncommon barrel life compared to the other mags and particularily compared to the 7mm WSM.

    My first barrel went 2300 rds and took 9th at the Nationals. I have a friend with 4000 rds thru his 300 WSM and still winning with it. He just posted that the throat has only moved .020 since starting. Now he has been shooter of the year several times also so he is top 2% in comp and extremely knowledgable.

    Either 1-10 or 1-11 twists will work. you want a min SAAMI reamer and .338 or .340 neck with the .340 might being no neck turn., but no need to go below .338 IMO. I would recommend going to Pacific Tool and Guage and talking with Dan Kiff and getting him to get your reamer and go guages (under $200). As for smiths, go to a top 1k smith (look at the "top Recommended smiths" url at www.6mmbr.com.

    As for bullets, 210 Berger or 210 JLK and maybe 200 SMK Sierra, H4350 or MRP powder, Norma Cases and F210 primers.

    If you are in NY area would recommend a PA taper barrel, Harrels brake and make weight at 16.5 lbs with NF scope. That way you can shoot PA, IBS, NBRSA or FClass with same gun. Bruce Baer has a modified Edge (extended in front) with MBR rear with 1/2 flat on bottom that is super for 1k. Mark King, Bruce Baer and Eric Springman in PA are all top 1k smiths and LR hunters. John Myer in VA is another.

    Go to the PA and IBS websites. The 300 WSM is a top comp caliber.

    BH
     
  13. Rimfire

    Rimfire Well-Known Member

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    Since you are leaning toward the 300WSM I'll put in my experience .02

    I have been shooting the 300WSM since they came available and currently hunt with one.

    12.5 pounds
    700 SA
    25" Broughton 1-11 twist 7.2 contour
    Mcmillan Sako Varmint
    HS mag

    It is a Min SAAMI chamber standard throat. A 175 SMK will fit the Magazine when seated 10 thou off the lands, and the boat tail junction is right at the bottom of the neck. The rifle was built around the 175smk as an 800 yard max deer rifle. Under ideal conditions I feel confident it could do a deer at 1K, but I limit it to 800 or less. At 1K I woukd feel better with a 210vld load or even better , I like the way the big 30's and 338's hit at 1K and beyond. If you want to shoot 210s I would throat it for them as not to cram the bullets in the case. If you are useing a short action and dont want a single shot that will be something to talk over with your smith, there will be a limit in length.
    This rifle shoots better then I could of asked for. In the 5-600 range it has become a proven combo.
    I even took it to the last Shippensburg G-Hog shoot and it held it's own and then some in light custom.
    As BH said it was smithed by one off 6br.coms list (Chris Martthews LongShot Rifles)
    I dont think you can go wrong with the 300WSM although I think as a 1k game rifle its pushing the envelope.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2007
  14. diderr

    diderr Well-Known Member

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    300 wsm hands down. the gun I have now was originally a 300 rum then I bought a shilen and chambered it into a 308win, then I figured out a 308win isn't a good long range caliber for hunting/shooting the hard way. And now it's a 300wsm. I love it, it's not as cheap as a 308win to hand load but it's worth it. my drop chart for it is out to 1200 yrds and it doesn't have any trouble getting there either.