300 WSM-Stiller, Surgeon, Defiance, or Badger?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by stanley52, Apr 19, 2013.

  1. stanley52

    stanley52 Well-Known Member

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    Ok so I am having a 300 WSM built, have a Hart fluted blank, remington varmint contour, 1:10, 26" finish. Need some action advice. I CAN afford a more expensive action, but I don't know if I want to. I can get a Stiller Predator with their tactical bolt handle, 20 MOA rail, and a pinned recoil lug for $930 shipped, that means I can use a Wyatt internal mag box so I can load those high BC bullets with less of an issue, so that's a big plus. Are there any just outright superior advantages to the more expensive actions to justify the extra 400-600 dollars? Purpose is a long range Elk rifle. Thanks everyone.
     
  2. MarcS

    MarcS Active Member

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    Surgeon is no longer selling their receivers so they're out. Stiller is nice and the Wyatt mag box drops right in with no machining.

    The new Defiance Deviant is one of the nicest I've ever seen. I have one here in the shop and I'm about to chamber a barrel for it now. It's expensive and from the looks of the mag well cut out you won't be able to get any internal mag box and follower to fit. They have several options available so it would take a phone call to them to know what's available.

    Marc
     

  3. The Duke007

    The Duke007 Well-Known Member

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    I have a stiller on one of my customs. Very smooth action cant go wrong with stiller
     
  4. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    None of those actions bolted into a stock will hold a barrel and make it shoot any more accurate than a Winchester Model 70 action. Most folks think they will. Those few having seen the track record of both know otherwise.

    Get what ever you want.
     
  5. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    Keep believing that!
     
  6. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Sully says I should keep believing Win. 70's do as wall as those others.

    Sully, you obviously do not know what accuracy levels they've had at 1000 yards with magnum cartridges since the 1960's. Like all the single shot or other popular benchrest actions such as those in this thread's title used by so many folks these days, they all do no better than staying under 3/4 MOA that far away.

    Sure, once in a while a tiny inch or two 5-shot group ekes out, but all the rest are up to 6 or 7 inches. Check out the group agg scores noting the largest group shot in them; if you can find out how bit it was. Then you might understand.

    If only a single 5-shot group under 2 inches is all you care about, I've done that at 1000 yards with a .308 Win. from a Win. 70 action, no less, slung up in prone using metallic aperture sights. Just once. No way will I claim that happens all the time. 'Twas just lucky it happened once.
     
  7. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    Oh I believe you! Thats why ALL the top shooting people for score....for $$$....for outright accuracy and our men in the field working as snipers ALL SHOOT Mod 70's. WRONGO Cordite breath!!

    Not saying a worked over Mod 70 wont shoot nice....but its no nicer than a worked over Rem 700...let alone a Stiller...or Surgeon or a ....X..or a....so dont come flying off the handle blowing your horn...because its ALL HOT AIR
     
  8. Stanm70

    Stanm70 Well-Known Member

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    Haha
     

    Attached Files:

  9. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Straight from an ignoratiolinguistic elmosinary, readers.
     
  10. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    #1 there should be a space between the O and the L.
    #2 take more time to look up more big words that no one but you gives a shit about! It makes you look "big"...dont it?
     
  11. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    This big. The 6-foot square target wouldn't fit on your computer screen so I reduced it so the 10-inch X-ring would be easier to see.

    Or this small; both 15-shot groups, the reds and the blacks, are under 5 inches. Each color was fired alternately about 20 to 25 seconds apart to show what each load would do for 30 shots.

    [​IMG]

    Nothing out there's done significantly better than this; a few have equalled it.

    One group with twice-fired full-length sized cases, the other with new cases.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  12. Sully2

    Sully2 Well-Known Member

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    Your done...you win...I lose..???...now say goodnight and go somewhere else
     
  13. Bart B

    Bart B Well-Known Member

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    No, you didn't lose. In this issue between the two of us, you came in second place. I was next to last.

    Goodnight.
     
  14. MarcS

    MarcS Active Member

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    Bart that is phenomenal shooting sir. That target would certainly crush the entire field at any F class national championship match. Thirty consecutive shots with two different loads in what appears to be about a 6" circle at 1K is nothing short of amazing. I've never seen that done before so kudos to you. Hopefully someday I'll be lucky enough to be on the range when the air is so still lol.

    As to the original posters question about the differences between custom and factory, I think there's more to it than just bottom line accuracy. I build rifles for competition and hunting using trued/squared Remingtons and Winchesters all the time and they do shoot very tight, but they are not the same as a custom action. I'll explain. First of all I'll throw in my two cents on the worn out old argument between 70's and 700's. Much of it is personal opinion ;-)

    I much prefer the 700 for a number of reasons. Most machinist gun builders who decide to venture into making custom receivers generally feel the same way and go with the 700 style or design as a base or starting point.

    -I like the push feed more than the controlled feed design for throwing another round in and slamming the bolt closed. It doesn't need to be stripped up from the magazine.
    -I like the recessed bolt nose counter bore style of a 700 and the "3 rings of steel" concept as opposed to the flat bolt head and flat breech chamber opening of the 70.
    -I prefer the larger diameter threaded barrel tennon of the 700.
    -I prefer the 700 trigger.
    -I prefer the 700 round design when I'm doing a pillar bedding job but this is really not important.
    -I don't like the large notch cut into the barrel threads and partially into the chamber of the 70 for that giant claw extractor. I don't like anything about the claw extractor for that matter. The 700 extractor is also not very impressive so I like to have a little m-16 style claw extractor installed.

    The 70's are more popular in across the course high power rifles but 700's and custom actions based on the 700 design absolutely dominate tactical/practical/field rifle competition.

    If one has the ability to pay for a custom action then it's certainly a better way to go. They dominate the field of high level accuracy games such as F class and bench rest competitions. The only reason not to shoot one is to save money on a budget based build. (I have to say that I have a 700 being used right now in 6 Dasher that has set some records in the past 6 months. It dominated F-open class at the Sacramento Canadian/American championships last month with multiple wins over the course of several "March Madness" matches. Again, I'm not saying they don't shoot! See the current gun article in the "Accurate Shooter" website under bulletins for the story.)

    Look at the new Defiance Deviant for example. It's hardened stainless steel and the entire action, recoil lug and scope rail are all machined from one solid block of steel with the bolt raceways being wire EDM cut. The bolt is one piece with a screw on knob. It is absolutely bank vault solid. The quality of the steel and the precision and consistency of the machining is as good as it gets. When you handle one and start to look at it closely and compare to a factory action the differences are clear. There is also a pride of ownership involved when you know that you have something so precise and of the highest quality from a custom shop as opposed to an off the shelf action.

    It's like comparing quarter mile drag strip numbters from the latest Corvette to a Ferarri. Just because the actual bottom line speed numbers are similar doesn't mean that those to cars are anything close to being similar.

    Marc