300 Win Mag.........................Perfect for Elk?

[Topgun 30-06]

"Just said it was very lethal and no more or less painful to the animal than a lung shot."

***You are kidding right, LOL?!!! How about you let someone shoot you in the *** compared to a quick killing heart/lung shot if you're going to die and we'll see what you have to say about it being less painful! Every day that goes by it seems like I read some more garbage from people that just don't get what hunting is all about with a quick, humane kill the culmination of the hunt if everything goes right. If it doesn't result in a good shot to the vitals, there is always tomorrow guys!!!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

"Just said it was very lethal and no more or less painful to the animal than a lung shot."

***You are kidding right, LOL?!!! How about you let someone shoot you in the *** compared to a quick killing heart/lung shot if you're going to die and we'll see what you have to say about it being less painful! Every day that goes by it seems like I read some more garbage from people that just don't get what hunting is all about with a quick, humane kill the culmination of the hunt if everything goes right. If it doesn't result in a good shot to the vitals, there is always tomorrow guys!!!

No... I'm not kidding... are you? Seriously.... you shoot animals with guns and you're making your own set of rules for what is acceptable and what is not in inflicitng pain? Are YOU kidding? That speed goat buck I shot expired in less time than most of my double lunged critters.

We do not discuss the "ethics" of hunting in this forum. If you want to impose your rule set on someone, take it somewhere else.

 

[Tikkamike]

Obviously you have a poor understanding of what it takes to sustain life. ALL things die from lack of oxygen. No matter if its from a heart shot, lung shot, brain shot or an *** shot. If you cease to perfuse oxygen you cease to live.. if I get shot in the *** and the bullet breaks my pelvis I'm going to have massive bleeding and a break in the circulation system which means my blood pump is about to loose its prime and start sucking air... you can't live with air in the system... that's also lethal. Oxygen enters into the blood stream through gas exchange which is done at the cellular level.... so yeah go ahead and shoot me up the *** or in the chest... I'm going to die in the same amount of time +/- and I'll be in shock almost immediately so I won't feel much if any pain either... did i mention shock is also lethal??? Get of your high horse and learn what you are talking about before you go spouting off there elmer fudd.

 

[HARPERC]

I suppose a lot of this has to do with regional traditions. When I was growing up the texas heart shot, as I learned to call it, was something you just didn't do. I never think about it when I'm hunting... it's just a shot I never thought to take. Other points are well taken though. A suitable caliber and bullet will sure enough do the job.
I've shot length way through a big black bear with a handgun, the bullets just happened to start at the front end, but the result would have been the same in either direction.

Those good handgun bullets will penetrate out of proportion to what most folks think. My number one goal when I shoot is recovery of that animal, marmot to moose. Again, lethality wise I am aiming at the organs in the chest, the *** is just in my way. A bullet that travels the full length of an animal will take out more tissue on its way through than a classic broadside shot. A broken pelvis will drop an animal as quickly the high shoulder shot thats become so popular. Bullet construction, weight, caliber and sectional density are critical though. Example of what I wouldn't try it with: My brother shot an antelope poorly (7mm mag) it was walking away from us, and we could not close the gap, the animal doesn't turn, and I stop it with a 165 grain Sierra at about 300 yards. The animal did stop, but the bullet blew apart and a few inches penetration was all I got. If that was my one experience with shooting an animal from behind I'd be on the other side of this discussion.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

Thanks, but I'll not take it somewhere else, as I have as much right on here to say that you shouldn't shoot an animal in the *** as those who say otherwise! For all of you *** shooters on the thread and in particular DR MIKE, who thinks he's an expert in anatomy and death, I wonder why you aren't an MD, LOL! Shooting an animal in the heart/lung area for a quick and humane and as close to an immediate kill as you can make has always been the tried and true method to take an animal and not shooting it through the *** when it's broadside!!! Your comments that it will die are correct, just like one shoot in the guts with a decent caliber, but HOW LONG will it live compared to a heart/lung shot is what makes the difference. Anyone that intimates that shooting an elk in the *** will do it in likeone to the frontal area is plain and simple full of bull! The site rule as far as I know is not to discuss the ethics of shooting at long range, but I don't believe there is anything that says there can be no discussion of where to shoot an animal whether it's at 100 or 1000 yards, regardless of what is being used.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

No... I'm not kidding... are you? Seriously.... you shoot animals with guns and you're making your own set of rules for what is acceptable and what is not in inflicitng pain? Are YOU kidding? That speed goat buck I shot expired in less time than most of my double lunged critters.

We do not discuss the "ethics" of hunting in this forum. If you want to impose your rule set on someone, take it somewhere else.

***That wasn't even a quote from you! It was from TikkaMike and I wouldn't argue that your shot up the rearend of an antelope is a lot different and lethal quickly compared to a broadside shot in the *** of a bull! Please refer to my previous post, as I have as much right as you to say where an animal should or shouldn't be shot.

 

[HARPERC]

Anyone that intimates that shooting an elk in the *** will do it in likeone to the frontal area is plain and simple full of bull!

I've done it.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

I've done it.

***How long did it take to die and did you shoot it more than once? I'm also not saying that it won't end up with a dead elk, but rather that it's just not a shot I would take just to fill a tag if a better shot wasn't presented. That is my call and if others want to do it I'm not going to change their mind or tell them not to and call them Elmer Fudd. It's just that I've hunted for 60 years and never ever seen a discussion like this where people are saying to take that shot if they have no other and to be honest I'm sort of in a state of shock reading those posts! I hope everyone has a great Fall and I'm outta here!

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Thanks, but I'll not take it somewhere else, as I have as much right on here to say that you shouldn't shoot an animal in the *** as those who say otherwise! For all of you *** shooters on the thread and in particular DR MIKE, who thinks he's an expert in anatomy and death, I wonder why you aren't an MD, LOL! Shooting an animal in the heart/lung area for a quick and humane and as close to an immediate kill as you can make has always been the tried and true method to take an animal and not shooting it through the *** when it's broadside!!! Your comments that it will die are correct, just like one shoot in the guts with a decent caliber, but HOW LONG will it live compared to a heart/lung shot is what makes the difference. Anyone that intimates that shooting an elk in the *** will do it in likeone to the frontal area is plain and simple full of bull! The site rule as far as I know is not to discuss the ethics of shooting at long range, but I don't believe there is anything that says there can be no discussion of where to shoot an animal whether it's at 100 or 1000 yards, regardless of what is being used.

***That wasn't even a quote from you! It was from TikkaMike and I wouldn't argue that your shot up the rearend of an antelope is a lot different and lethal quickly compared to a broadside shot in the *** of a bull! Please refer to my previous post, as I have as much right as you to say where an animal should or shouldn't be shot.

No... you nor any of us have any rights here. Len, the owner has all the rights including the right to say what can be discussed and what can't. Keep pushing it and you'll find out the reality of that. Telling people where and how to shoot and not to shoot game to make humane kills delves into the "ethics" arena, which is strictly against forum rules.

Shooting an animal in the rear can be even more deadly than the lung shot as it will encounter more organs, arteries, etc., as it travels the length of the body. if you are implying the elk is just to large for such a shot... that all depends on what rifle and bullet you are using... which brings us back around to the topic of this thread.... which you are dragging us away from. That is where individual judgment comes in. There are no hard and fast rules. I have no doubt that a 300 WM shooting a good controlled expansion bullet could penetrate the full length of a big bull provided it had enough velocity. I would hesitate to use a frangible bullet for such a shot, but that is up to the decision of the hunter. If a frangible bullet broke down the pelvis and caused massive hemorrhaging, it would be just as effective as any lung shot. The animal would go nowhere and expire relatively quickly.

If you want to make the statement "I would not make such a shot because...." fine. But you are out of line when you tell others what they can and can't do in that regard in this forum.

So I would recommend dropping it... and let's get back to topic.

 

[Topgun 30-06]

No... you nor any of us have any rights here. Len, the owner has all the rights including the right to say what can be discussed and what can't. Keep pushing it and you'll find out the reality of that. Telling people where and how to shoot and not to shoot game to make humane kills delves into the "ethics" arena, which is strictly against forum rules.

Shooting an animal in the rear can be even more deadly than the lung shot as it will encounter more organs, arteries, etc., as it travels the length of the body. if you are implying the elk is just to large for such a shot... that all depends on what rifle and bullet you are using... which brings us back around to the topic of this thread.... which you are dragging us away from. That is where individual judgment comes in. There are no hard and fast rules. I have no doubt that a 300 WM shooting a good controlled expansion bullet could penetrate the full length of a big bull provided it had enough velocity. I would hesitate to use a frangible bullet for such a shot, but that is up to the decision of the hunter. If a frangible bullet broke down the pelvis and caused massive hemorrhaging, it would be just as effective as any lung shot. The animal would go nowhere and expire relatively quickly.

If you want to make the statement "I would not make such a shot because...." fine. But you are out of line when you tell others what they can and can't do in that regard in this forum.

So I would recommend dropping it... and let's get back to topic.

***Your reading comprehension is obviously pretty lousy as we are talking about broadside shots in the ***, not near or up the bunghole from behind that will put a well built bullet on up into the vitals! I also said those were MY ideas of what I would do or not do, was not imposing it on anyone, and I was outta here, so there was obviously no need for your post other than to keep stirring things up telling me what I can and can't do and I also don't see Moderator by your name!!! Now I am outta here like I said before and there is no reason for you come on again!

 

[HARPERC]

***How long did it take to die and did you shoot it more than once? I'm also not saying that it won't end up with a dead elk, but rather that it's just not a shot I would take just to fill a tag if a better shot wasn't presented. That is my call and if others want to do it I'm not going to change their mind or tell them not to and call them Elmer Fudd. It's just that I've hunted for 60 years and never ever seen a discussion like this where people are saying to take that shot if they have no other and to be honest I'm sort of in a state of shock reading those posts! I hope everyone has a great Fall and I'm outta here!

My moose shot broadside through the chest behaved much the same. A .375 caliber bullet expanded 3-4x passing through the chest cavity doesn't care if it was fired from north, south, east, or west. Over in the time it takes to rack the bolt. 3-5 seconds by the clock I suppose. It was absolutely dead by the time I walked the 25 yards between us.

 

[Red Sparky]

I thought this was about the 300 Win Mag. and elk. I feel like I need to go to get some product from Adam & Eve before I come back in here. Is that Dueling Banjos I hear playing? Yes the "Texas Heart shot" can be very deadly but I don't want to clean one out with the bullet going through intestines and stomach before lungs/heart. Luckily never gut shot one but I have nicked the stomach with my knife field dressing. That made me gag and puke and I use to pick up dead critters for a living so I have a pretty strong stomach.

 

[MontanaRifleman]

Sparky, thanks for your profound contribution... if you puke and gag from nicking the stomach with your knife, maybe hunting isn't for you... maybe you should just get your meat from the butcher... just sayin...

 

[Tikkamike]

***Your reading comprehension is obviously pretty lousy as we are talking about broadside shots in the ***, not near or up the bunghole from behind that will put a well built bullet on up into the vitals! I also said those were MY ideas of what I would do or not do, was not imposing it on anyone, and I was outta here, so there was obviously no need for your post other than to keep stirring things up telling me what I can and can't do and I also don't see Moderator by your name!!! Now I am outta here like I said before and there is no reason for you come on again!

Hey Fudd... nobody I saying shoot a broadside animal in the ***. (Although it is lethal) we are talking up the ***... read back when I said I shot a deer up the tail pipe... tail pipe= *** hole... ..so you have failed yet again to make an intelligent argument....