300 Win Mag.........................Perfect for Elk?
- Thread starter Greg Duerr
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Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
+100lightbulb But hey, we only kill a couple dozen a year.
Jeff
True we haven't even hit the hundreds yet
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
In case you're interested, I do have a NIB SS Sub MOA Weatherby Vanguard 300 WBY for sale. I bought the rifle to use the action and stock for a build but decided to go a different direction. It has a factory shot 3 shot target that measures about 0.4". It has a 24" sporter barrel, so not as efficient as a 26" barrel. It's not what I would recommend for 1K shooting but it should do fine to 600 or more and it's medium weight. It's going to have some recoil so you could install a brake for about $200 or learn to shoot it without a brake.
ARMSLIST - For Sale: Sub MOA Vanguard 300 Weatherby Mag Tack Driver
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f25/nib-ss-sub-moa-weatherby-vanguard-300-wby-mag-115373/
COBrad
Well-Known Member
Okay, I'll bite on this one.
I've guided, or outfitted, elk hunters for over 30 years now. My suggestion to clients is NOT to use a .300 magnum unless they are already well seasoned with it and can handle the recoil.
If they are determined to use a magnum I STRONGLY suggest a 7 mag. Wonderful round, very capable for elk, and most guys who shoot regularly can master it. Note I say MASTER, not just sling lead.
I really prefer to see clients bring the deer rifle they already shoot well. Shot placement is where it's at. Most hunters simply can't handle the recoil of a .300. Most hunters don't have the skill to use the .308 to its' full potential. The vast majority of elk are shot at under 200 yards.
The value in a magnum is increased range. If you're not shooting past 4 or 500 yards there is no need for a magnum. The old '06 and 270 work great.
Remember guys, most of us on this site do not represent the average hunter... we shoot a lot and can use a magnum to its' full potential.
Even so there are some on here, myself included, who prefer a gun with less recoil.
That said I have owned a number of magnums, including 3-.300's. I would suggest if using these rounds don't waste it on 180 gr bullets, yer '06 can handle them just fine. Use 200's or heavier.
I shot a .300 Jarrett until it was shot out, and I can tell you that 200 gr bullets at 3000 fps are amazingly powerful elk killing projectiles.
I just don't bother with them anymore because I don't need that kind of recoil and blast to kill elk. Oh, I did use a brake because I don't care for heavy recoil. Now I don't care for brakes either.
One more thing, before the argument starts about needing to be able so shoot at that angle where you need to be able to shoot through him end to end to reach the vitals, I guess I'm old school alright. I learned, and still advocate, taking only good shots with reasonable angles. Shooting an elk up the *** is a crappy shot and I don't care what you are shooting. It just makes a mess out of a fine animal, and even with a big magnum there is way too much chance for an awful wound that kills a fine game animal after he has escaped. It's a shot I would be embarrassed to admit I had taken.
Remember, it's hunting, not life and death for us, the hunters.
I don't let my clients take poor shots.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
Okay I'll bite on this one.
You had me in agreement until the end. Maybe not in Colorado, but there are places if you want to see the front end of an elk, you'll need to shoot the *** end. With proper loads its very lethal and disabling. I've done it, feel no shame, and I'd do it again.
COBrad
Well-Known Member
Okay, I can see your point. I have seen the north end of a south bound elk many times in thick foliage. Having never hunted in your neck of the woods perhaps this is the shot you get.
HARPERC
Well-Known Member
I should clarify also, I'm not talking hail mary shots, brush shots, or brush bucking bullets.
Properly armed to me in that situation, starts with well constructed 220 grain .30 caliber bullets. The H&H .375 has worked for me best, most 300 grainers will work, but I ended up with 350 grain Barnes Originals. The only elk I shot with those was a cripple (someone else's) I shot in the back of the head, no real test. An example of a shot I didn't take was my first BC moose hunt. The wind came up before I got there and didn't stop until after I left. Flight canceling, hat chasing, the 3 stooges tying a brick to the horses tail and still getting smacked wind. The moose all disappeared into the thick stuff. We tracked and circled every day with moose 50 yards ahead. The trouble was I took a picture of our tied horses at that range, and no horses are in the picture. My one look at a moose was the south end, going north while I had moose in the scope, but before the crosshairs settled, the brush crashed closed behind him, and I let it go. If we had seen a moose on the far side of a meadow that trip, the wind was high enough to make that a low percentage shot I would not have taken either. I'm no longer agile enough, or narrow enough to play in the Pacific Northwest Jungles anymore. LOL
Properly armed to me in that situation, starts with well constructed 220 grain .30 caliber bullets. The H&H .375 has worked for me best, most 300 grainers will work, but I ended up with 350 grain Barnes Originals. The only elk I shot with those was a cripple (someone else's) I shot in the back of the head, no real test. An example of a shot I didn't take was my first BC moose hunt. The wind came up before I got there and didn't stop until after I left. Flight canceling, hat chasing, the 3 stooges tying a brick to the horses tail and still getting smacked wind. The moose all disappeared into the thick stuff. We tracked and circled every day with moose 50 yards ahead. The trouble was I took a picture of our tied horses at that range, and no horses are in the picture. My one look at a moose was the south end, going north while I had moose in the scope, but before the crosshairs settled, the brush crashed closed behind him, and I let it go. If we had seen a moose on the far side of a meadow that trip, the wind was high enough to make that a low percentage shot I would not have taken either. I'm no longer agile enough, or narrow enough to play in the Pacific Northwest Jungles anymore. LOL
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
I agree with Carl, an *** shot is a very lethal shot if you are using the right equipment. A healthy understanding on how the human body works helps give an understanding on how animals bodies work to sustain life. an *** shot you have several ways to kill and the shot is almost unsurvivable. Femoral artery- dead Femur-dead from severe blood loss, hip bone-disabled and dead from severe blood loss then the organs North of all of that mess are all lethal shots too. Granted clipping a butt cheek is a lost elk so like all shots it needs to be a meticulous shot not a "im gonna shoot hair shot" but the *** shot works well its not the most classy shot but its a very lethal shot and will leave a heck of a blood trail. I shot a 150" whitetail last fall up the tail pipe took him a couple hundred yards to die but the highway of blood was an easy trail to follow and I am not ashamed a bit of the shot, I got a pretty nice deer that otherwise would have gotten away. Other than that I agree with your post though Brad, the shooter needs to be able to handle his equipment no doubt and a 7mm or a 300 can kill an elk. However I personally prefer the Diameter+weight= death theory
Topgun 30-06
Well-Known Member
I guess I didn't realize that some are hard up enough to fill a tag that they intentionally shoot an animal in the ***. Whatever lights your fire I guess, but most would probably say the animal beat me and I let it live to see another day if the only shot offered was the WRONG end!
Broz
Well-Known Member
I will not judge or pass along an opinion on this type of shot. All hunting situations are different and details can change things in a split second.
Butt,, I will say, that you guys doing all this talking about "up the ***" or "up the tail pipe" stuff is making me feel a little ill. I think I will drink a beer and clean my elk rifle now.
Jeff
Butt,, I will say, that you guys doing all this talking about "up the ***" or "up the tail pipe" stuff is making me feel a little ill. I think I will drink a beer and clean my elk rifle now.
Jeff
MontanaRifleman
Well-Known Member
I didn't know there was a wrong or right end? What's so sacred bout a critters ***? You shoot them... they die. You put meat in the freezer and a head on the wall.
Probably 95% of my shots have been double lungers. I did do the Texas Heart shot on a buck speed goat once. He turned away from me just as I was setting set up and it was plain to me the herd was moving out. So at about 200 yds I put the crosshairs on the crack and broke the trigger. He hunched up and fell over. the bullet performed like an enema... right between the hams. Found about 50% of it just under the hide of the shoulder.
So what is so sacred bout a critters ***? I don't get it?
Just to keep on track.... a 300 mag shot with a good bullet should do the trick about at any angle.
Probably 95% of my shots have been double lungers. I did do the Texas Heart shot on a buck speed goat once. He turned away from me just as I was setting set up and it was plain to me the herd was moving out. So at about 200 yds I put the crosshairs on the crack and broke the trigger. He hunched up and fell over. the bullet performed like an enema... right between the hams. Found about 50% of it just under the hide of the shoulder.
So what is so sacred bout a critters ***? I don't get it?
Just to keep on track.... a 300 mag shot with a good bullet should do the trick about at any angle.
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
Never said it was ideal or optimum. Just said it was very lethal and no more or less painful to the animal than a lung shot. I'm not above taking the shot. BecAuse in reality what does it matter? And why? I think a head shot is more irresponsible than an *** shot because a broken jaw/blindness is a very likely result. But it all comes to personal preference.
Tikkamike
Well-Known Member
Well said
COBrad
Well-Known Member
I suppose a lot of this has to do with regional traditions. When I was growing up the texas heart shot, as I learned to call it, was something you just didn't do. I never think about it when I'm hunting... it's just a shot I never thought to take. Other points are well taken though. A suitable caliber and bullet will sure enough do the job.
I've shot length way through a big black bear with a handgun, the bullets just happened to start at the front end, but the result would have been the same in either direction.
I've shot length way through a big black bear with a handgun, the bullets just happened to start at the front end, but the result would have been the same in either direction.
