300 Win for a beginner or RUM?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by 4th_point, Nov 28, 2009.

  1. 4th_point

    4th_point Well-Known Member

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    Guys,

    I've researched so much my head hurts. Looking for your thoughts on a longrange rig for elk, deer, and black bear. I've got a good idea of the drop and drift of the common longrange rounds, but want some feedback on rifle weight and cartridges. I apologize in advance for the long post, but I'll try to give you as much info about me in hopes that it will make it easier for you to provide advice.


    ABOUT ME:


    Shooting: I'm an avid target shooter (in the coast mountains, not a member at a range). I have reloading equipment, but haven't started to use it yet. I have a Swaro LRF, spotting scope, etc. I am not wealthy but can save money to buy better equipment if necessary.

    Current Rifles: I am assembling a 243 for target shooting. Its a Stevens action, SSS trigger, 28" Lothar LW-50 barrel, 1-in-7 twist. Stock is the new Choate tactical. I have 105gr AMAX bullets. Scope is a Bushnell 6-24x Tactical with 20MOA EGW rail. This will be my high volume target, varmint, etc. rifle. It is not finished yet.

    I also have a CZ 453 22lr with 20MOA rail and 20x Super Sniper. I shoot this for cheap practice at 200-300 yards. Its actually a lot of fun, cheap, and allows me to work on wind drift at closer ranges. I previously owned a T3 in 300WSM. It weighed 8-1/2 lbs and it was ok to carry. I never killed an animal with it, but found it easy to hit milk jugs at 400+ yards. I sold this rifle.


    REQUIREMENTS:


    I primarily hunt with a bow. What I'd like to have is a rifle for an occasional deer tag. This could be mule deer in Eastern Oregon, or blacktail across canyons into clearcuts on the coast. I see this being more longrange hunting (up to 1000 yards or more) as opposed to beating the brush. I will still need to hike many miles though for mulies.

    I will also apply for draw-only elk tags. These would be some of the better elk hunts in Oregon so I might need to beat a little more brush than when hunting with the deer tags. But, I still want to be able to make those cross canyon shots. If I get one of these primo elk tags, I'll need to hunt hard in whatever way necessary to fill it. If the elk are in the timber, I will need to chase them. If they are 800-1200 yards across a canyon, I will want to shoot one.

    A lesser consideration is antelope, sheep, and goats. I'm less worried about those since I could use my 243 for antelope. Sheep and goats are once in a lifetime here so its not a major factor until I actually get one of these tags.


    MY THOUGHTS:


    Get a 300 Win that weighs about 7-1/2 to 9lbs, put a 5-15x on it, shoot the 200gr Accubond, and be done with it. This would either be a Savage with sporter barrel, or their fluted tactical barrel. I could assemble a rifle like am doing with my 243, but am leaning towards getting the Accustock and Accutrigger for simplicity. I could get an XCR or Sendero, but would prefer to stick with Savage. I'm thinking that this 300 Win would allow me to beat some brush, be light enough to carry in Eastern Oregon, and allow me to shoot across canyons.

    I am really interested in a 338 RUM due to the high BC and mass of the bullets. But packing one in the canyons would be a chore. Plus it wouldn't be great for the limited bushwacking I might have to do with a primo elk tag. Then there is the brake. Not a problem for longrange, but if something jumps up in front of me I wouldn't have time for hearing protection. I think that if I could afford 2 rifles, I would get a lightweight 300 Win plus a big 338. But since I can only afford one rifle, I'm thinking the 300 Win would be more versatile.


    QUESTIONS:


    What would you guys do if you were me? Just get a big 338 and suck it up, or get a mid-weight 300 Win? I can only afford one right now. Go with the versatile 300 Win, or just skip it and get the heavy hitting 338? With a 2 year old son, and probably more on the way, this will be my last scoped rifle for awhile. My heart says 338, but my brain says 300. Maybe an XCR in 338 RUM, no brake, and just take the beating while practicing? Would a sporter barrel be a bad idea for any of these rifles?

    I'd like to keep the rifle and scope costs reasonable (under $1k for each, preferably less) since this would not be my main shooting stick. Reloading cost doesn't bother me too much. I will shoot it enough to be proficient, but the 243 will be my high volume shooter. An added bonus to using the 200gr Accubond is that I could use the 115gr DTAC in my 243 and basically have the same BC and velocity from the two cartridges. Or should I not even bother with this thought?


    I value the collective wisdom here more than any other source. If I'm headed down the wrong path, let me know.

    Jason
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  2. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Your asking alot for a factory rig. Can it be done, Yes

    BUT, You will need a lot of luck getting a great barrel on the factory rifle.
    AND, you will need to get up to speed on loading quality consistent match ammo.
    Then, you will need lots of trigger time to be shooter capable of 800-1200 yards. (thats tuff to do with an unbraked 300wm shooting 200 grainers from a 7-9 lb rifle.)

    Sorry to tell you but long range and beating the brush almost neccesitates two different rifles. Unless Your long range is limited to somwhere south of 600 yards.

    If I was you I would get a accurate 300WSM or 7WSM, limit yourself to ranges you are capable of, and practice a hell of alot. If and when you are capable of consistent shot placements out to 800 yards. Then you can start thinking about building a set-up for 1000 plus. Non of this is as easy as some make it appear. I've practiced out to 1200 yards and thats nothing like shooting at 800.
     

  3. Chas1

    Chas1 Well-Known Member

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    4th_point, Your post mentioned 1000+ yards as longrange and also up close. I agree w/previous post, I would have 2 different rifles, one for each. IMHO I wouldn't go with 300WM on elk much beyond 800 yards. Also, I would rethink rifle weight if your serious about being succesful at killing effectively at 1000+ yards.
     
  4. 4th_point

    4th_point Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the honest feedback Jim. That's exactly what I'm looking for.

    I know this will be a long process. I'm usually patient when trying to reach these types of goals, but am a little anxious to get another rifle while I can. Maybe I should finish the 243 and work on some loads then think about the next rifle after I have some experience like you mentioned.

    Oh, the 7-9 lb 300 Win would be just the rifle alone. Scoped and ready to go I figure it would weigh 9-11 lb. My T3 in 300 WSM was 8.5 lbs ready to shoot and the recoil was not an issue with a Limbsaver pad. I could easily shoot 40 rounds in one session without a brake.

    Shooting the WSM at 400 yards was easy (well under 1 MOA with the TIKKA). This was as far as I shot with it since I had no way to easily compensate for drop or drift with the scope I was using at the time.

    I've also had great succes hitting small targets at 500 yards with my .308 AR (sold that one too). But, I know that beyond 500 yards things get very difficult. That is the reason why I chose to build the 243 and shoot a lot to gain some experience. The 243 seemed like the cheapest way to go in terms of components and still get a good BC bullet.

    Like all things in life, it seems like another compromise. I've gone through this with my other hobbies and find that when I make compromises and buy a firearm, motorcycle, etc. to do everything it doesn't provide me with enjoyment or confidence.
     
  5. 4th_point

    4th_point Well-Known Member

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    That makes sense Chas, thanks. Reality is setting in for me.

    I'm serious about 1000 yards, even if it takes me years to develop the skill set to get there and be confident that I'll make a clean kill. So I will focus on one rifle, for one task.

    What rifle weights should I be thinking about for:

    1. 300 Win
    2. 338 RUM

    Thanks,

    Jason
     
  6. Coyboy

    Coyboy Well-Known Member

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    Jason, Your 243 will be an easy 1000 yard target rifle. Find some f-class matches near you and shoot a few of them. This is great practice for reading the wind, and learning the shooting position you will use in the LRH field, Prone.

    This will give you practice time in making accurate ammunition as well. After your third match, you might rethink the whole process of picking the right rifle, cartrage, weight combo.

    Personally if your after a dedicated LR rifle for elk to 1200 yards, Knowing your plans are to "grow into it" I would get a big 338, rum, edge, lapua, ect. Invest your money in that rig. A factory Sendero in 300 rum would also work, again luck of the draw on the barrel but most will shoot really well after a trigger job, skim bedding and a new crown. A muzzle brake on a LR rifle won't hurt either, plenty of time for plugs when your shooting long.

    Any factory stick will make a timber gun.
     
  7. 4th_point

    4th_point Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again Jim for the great advice. A dedicated 338 does sound like the best longterm investment, and it gets me excited just thinking about it. If I saved my pennies, I could always add another shorter range factory rifle for 'normal' distances like you said. If I got the 300 Win now, it would be very hard to get the momentum going to start a 338 build.

    One of my co-wrokers is friends with at least one of the Team Savage shooters. I talked to one of them before about loads and shooting. If I'm lucky, I might be able to pick their brains but even if I could spend some time watching them in action it would be helpful. I like the idea of entering a competition too.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2009
  8. woods

    woods Well-Known Member

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    I have both. If there was a choice to have just one it would be the 300 win mag. Probably because I can shoot the 300 win mag all day without a muzzle brake in a carry weight rifle and it will do all that needs to be done.

    Shooting at the longer distances past 600 yards takes years of paying dues laying groundwork at 100, 200 and 300 yards working your way through precision handloading, load development, scopes, shooting techniques, wind doping, rifle beddings, etc. Many times it is 2 steps forward one step back. The RUM's are high maintenance and not pleasant to shoot.

    The 338RUM I have is a custom rebarrel with a Brux #5 contour with barrel porting and 2 recoil suppressors in the butt of the stock and it still kicks like hell. Anytime you are shooting a 225 gr bullet at 3100 fps and using over 90 grains of powder you have a monster in your hands. It weighs about 10 pounds all geared up and it is a bad boy to tote around the mountains even though I did last month on an Elk hunt (didn't get a shot).

    The last Elk I shot was with a 300 win mag 180 gr TSX at 253 yards and it did an admirable job. It will become your friend and the 338RUM will become work. You will need a muzzle brake of some kind or carry a 12 pound rifle unless you enjoy punishment.

    The 300 win mag will be cheaper on dies, brass and powder and it is easy to load for. Again, doesn't need a brake. This will do all you need
    [​IMG]

    and this will do more than you ever need
    [​IMG]

    JMHO
     
  9. Chopaka81

    Chopaka81 Well-Known Member

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    Have you thought of a 308 or an old fashioned 30-06 for a light duty close quarters rifle? As in out to 4 or 500 yds? To bad you moved that Tikka down the road. I learned long ago, every 1/2 moa rifle I own get's a life membership to my vault. :D You are now (or about to) learn that lesson too. :rolleyes:

    You should have sent the scope down the road and put one on that Tikka with turrets if that is what you were looking for.

    My most recent LR scope purchase was a NIKON Monarch-X 30mm 4-16x50mm MD scope. I am getting along with it very well, I was a little paranoid about knocking the exposed turrets out of alignment/zero. But that proved to be of no concern. But I while continue to be vigilent and careful.

    You are on an interesting track with that Savage action preference. They are reported to be very easy for an ameture to swap a barrel. Have you given any thought to locking in on a long action rifle build and picking up a pair of bolts? One with a standard cartridge bolt face (308 & etc) and a 2nd bolt with a magnum cartridge bolt face (300Win & etc). I know this sounds a little "unconventional" but there is a measure of flexibility in building with this way.

    FWIW, I have a Tikka T3 Lite in 270 Win, it has a simple 2-7x33mm VXI scope on it and it shoots under 1/2 moa. I would never hessitate to take a deer sized animal down out to 650 yds (or so) with it. Bottom line you do not need a cannon to put a deer or an antelope on the ground. I like a minimum of 1000 ft/lbs for deer - 1600 ft/lbs for elk.

    You need a rifle that you have trained with and know it inside and out. For beginners I like to have them dry fire once, prior to taking "the shot". I want them to see the site picture as the hammer drops, if it is wobbly or unsteady they can adjust and try again. It builds their confidence and results in a much higher 1st shot hit factor.

    Keep us posted on what you decide and how it works out for you.
     
  10. trueblue

    trueblue Well-Known Member

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    Go with the 300 WM for now.
    As WOODS said" it will become your friend "
     
  11. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    +1......

    As to the advice of the 225 TSX bullet in the 338 RUM. The 225 TSX is an excellent general hunting bullet, but the OP mentined 1200 yards and this is not the bullet for that type of distance, the 300 SMK is with it's .768 BC it is a real hammer at long range
     
  12. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    I would have both the 300win and the 338RUM, buy a Savage [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Model 110FCP[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]-K, it will get you out to a good distance and it will be great to practice with and when your 1000+yrd capable with the 300win on target then screw on a 338RUM barrel to take you to the next level.[/FONT][/FONT]
     
  13. darrindlh

    darrindlh Well-Known Member

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    4th point
    +1 on the 300wm. Once you get comfortable with the 300 wm at very long range you can upgrade your rifle to a 338 edge. That is what I am going to do with my savage 300 wm. My 2 cents only.

    Darrin