.300 RUM established accuracy?

Discussion in 'Rifles, Bullets, Barrels & Ballistics' started by Ramses II, May 7, 2005.

  1. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    There are some mainstay cartridges that have established their consistency in the long range arena..308, 300 Win Mag, .338 Lapua.
    Has the .300 Rem Ultra Mag established itsels as a consistent, accurate round? I know the ballistics are impressive, but........
    What y'all think?
    For a long rang target gun, I am trying to decide between the .300 RUM w/ 220 gr. bullets or the .338 Lapua.

    Ramses II
     
  2. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ramses
    Have a look at pages 618 & 619 of the 5th edition Sierra manual for some idea of 300RUMs accuracy, they show a little picture of Chris Lauck after a hit on a 11"x18" target at 1800yds using 190SMKs and John Buhay after shooting a perfect 100 with a group size of 5.377" using 200SMKs in 1000yd light gun class.
    To me this demonstrates the accuracy potential of the 300RUM, although some will tell you that it is a well put together rifle that releases that potential and they are of course right, but it just goes to show what can be done.

    When you step up to 338 Lapua things start to become a bit more specialized and more expensive but i'm not saying dont go there. For easy availability of guns and components, dies etc,(and less recoil) i would go for the 300RUM.

    Ian.

    PS. Dont rule out the 338RUM, ballisticly equal to the 338 Lapua.
     

  3. goodgrouper

    goodgrouper Well-Known Member

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    I have developed loads for at least a dozen 300 Ultra mags and have never not had them shoot 1/2-5/8" groups at 100 yards with RL 25 and 180 grain B tips or Accubonds. It can be a very accurate round given that the rifle is assembled properly. That being said, I would still rather have a .338 Ultra mag instead because of the benefit of better barrel life, heavier bullets available, and better downrange thump! A .300 win mag gives up very little in real world performance to the 300 ultra, and does so with 20 grains less powder, better barrel life, less barrel heat, less recoil, and also has better brass available.
     
  4. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Try the 300RUM necked to .338 I know of seven or so of these that really perform.And while the 300 win is a wonderful round and the .338 win is a good round (had both)
    check the ballistics on a 300gr SMK going 3000fps, lets say the energy level or retained velocity and you can draw your own conclusions!I'd ask Kirby about his 7mm Allen mag, I've ran the numbers on it and it was very impressive.
     
  5. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Ramses II,

    Teh 300 RUM is a fine round for extreme range accuracy if as said the rifle is built properly. I would also add that I personally feel that the 300 RUM is far better served with a 200 gr or heavier pill then the lighter bullets. That is not to say the 180 gr bullets will not perform as they obviously will, in fact I used the 180 gr BST in my 300 RUM exclusively.

    Still, from a ballistic and efficency standpoint, the 100 gr case capacity of the RUM will perform better with a 200 gr bullet or heavier.

    I would also agree that the 338 has a couple advantages over the 300. First being barrel life and the second being on game performance as far as frontal area is concerned.

    The 338-300 RUM or 338 Edge(Shawn C.s great round) are top performers that will match or slightly outperform the Lapua. Brass may not come out of the box as consistant but it can be made that way relatively easily. Serious round which I would say is basically on par with the 338 Lapua Imp.

    Sniper2,

    While my 7mm Allen Mag will certainly offer ballistic performance higher then any round listed in this conversation and by a fair margin, it should be known that it is designed, just as the other Allen Mags as strictly a big game round for use at extreme range.

    Barrel life will not be dramatically less then the likes of the 7mm RUM or 7.21 Firebird, especially with the 3 groove Lilja barrels and use of Ball powders but it will still be limited to the 1500 round range for extreme range big game hunting purposes.

    Just wanted to make that point that it is not designed for use as a long range target round. Not that it would not perform amazingly well but high volume shooting is not where this round will excell. Where it is designed to be used is for the big game hunter wanting legit +1500 yard performance in a rifle that does not need to be 25 lbs in weight.

    Good Shooting!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  6. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    I've just begun working a load for a .300 RUM with 210gr JLKs and CR 216s with RL-25 and H-1000. Punching 3/8" at 100 at around 3250 fps. Not too bad for a hunting rifle. Thought about a .338 Lap, much better brass but the bullet selection is better in the .30 cal. You must decide what you want to do with it and how fast you want to go. If you want a bench gun, go with a 6mm something, if you want a 2000yd shooter, do like the Armed Forces; 50BMG. I shoot a friends .338 RUM in a SSF Sendero on occasion. Hard hitting rifle with X bullets, but won't do nothing the .300 can't do at realistic hunting distances. There's also some pretty good Federal brass in the .300 RUM available.
    db
     
  7. sniper2

    sniper2 Well-Known Member

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    Pardon me!I didn't intentionally brag on your 'ol cartridges!!
     
  8. Ramses II

    Ramses II Well-Known Member

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    dbholster,
    I'll be shootin from the bench (target only--no huntin'). You recommended a 6mm-something. Any recommendations? I understand the 6mm 107 gr &amp; the 6.5mm 142 Gr. are great performers. If they will perform just as well at 1000 yds as the .30s &amp; .338s I think it sounds like a great idea.

    What cartridges do you recommend? A custom .240 Weatherby sounds great....except for those damn expensive shells!

    Ramses II
     
  9. heatseekins

    heatseekins Well-Known Member

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    check out this site 6mmbr.com anything and everything about short to long range shooting with a 6mm bullet. I love my 6BR its the most acurate and cheapest to shoot round I have found. My favorite thing to do is to let someone else shoot a group with it at 1-300 yards and wach the smile tako over their face. ive got over 30 reloads on lapua brass too....... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
     
  10. dbhostler

    dbhostler Well-Known Member

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    As "heetseekins" recommends, go to 6mmbr.com and benchrest.com and snoop around. These sites are visited by world class shooters and world record holders in longrange benchrest. 6BR, 6PPC, 6 Dasher, the list goes on and on. I personally shoot a .244 Ackley which is an "improved" 6mm Rem. It will push 105-107s over 3100fps and reach out to 1K easily. The 6.5-284, 6.5-06, and all the wildcats may be something to look at too, but where do you draw the line? Some will say a 7mm something will shoot farther, flatter. Then another will recommend a big 30 is the way to go, or the .338 has a better BC in the heavies. Why not .50 cal. or better yet 20mm? All bullets are blown around in the wind the bigger ones less, but that doesn't mean the guy next to you shooting a .338 blaster will score any higher in windy conditions. I like the big booming stuff. Makes more noise, dirt fly and your shoulder hurt after a day of shooting as well as burning twice the ammount powder and more costly components. On the other hand, my "little" six is fun to shoot. Good luck on your search, and may you find your "perfect" rifle. I'm still looking, but isn't that the fun of this sport. You have a lot of company on this road, and most are willing to share the stories of their adventures.
    db
     
  11. Buffalobob

    Buffalobob Writers Guild

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    Norma brass is expensive, it does not matter whether it is 240 Wby for $21.00 or 308 for 17.00 for 20 or 300 Win at $26.00 per 20. And if you think that is bad check the prices on Lapua brass for a 338 Lapua.

    The 240 Wby (as I imagine are most of the 6mms) is fun to shoot at the bench. I have a standard 1-10 twist Shilen barrel and I have just started experimenting with bullets at weights other than 85 grains. It is going to be interesting to see what the gun thinks about heavier bullets and whether it can be stretched out to 1000yds. I am not advocating the 240 Wby cartridge as a great target cartridge. This is a hunting rifle for whitetail deer and energy is pretty well gone at 600yds for deer shooting purposes.

    My two cents - barrel twist is critical when playing at 1000yd. Read Goodgroupers account of the two 6mms shooting at chucks.
     
  12. Centre Punch

    Centre Punch Well-Known Member

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    Ramses;
    If you want to stick with a 6mm for target shooting from the bench go for 6mmBR.
    When you are sending few thousand rounds downrange each year, barrel life becomes an important factor, although the speed of the 243 and 6mm Ackleys, 6mm284 etc, are very desirable do you really want change barrels and go through all that break in and load developement half way through an F-Class season for instance? I know i would'nt.

    6mmBR is an excellent round, it will launch 105s and 107s at 3000fps (depending on who's data you read), you have Norma and Lapua brass, off the shelf competition dies, very economical powder consumption and best of all,incredible accuracy! what more could you want. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    Ian.

    PS. the only reason i have not got one is, i cant afford one, at the moment.
     
  13. Fiftydriver

    Fiftydriver <strong>Official LRH Sponsor</strong>

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    Sniper2,

    Just wanted to make the point clear to the rest on the board. Ballistically you are correct, it will be a most impressive round /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif!!

    Kirby Allen(50)
     
  14. Mysticplayer

    Mysticplayer Writers Guild

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    For 1000yds bench shooting

    Ramses, here is my idea of a better mousetrap for 1000yd shooting. Might be what you are looking for. At this time, I still feel the 6.5 has an edge over the 6mm. Bullets might change that in time. Enjoy Jerry

    Since posting about my 6.5 Mystic in another post, there has been a number who have requested info and specs. Here it is:

    The purpose of the design was to make a 1000yd BR cartridge that used a readily available, accurate, strong and cheap brass. Had to allow for near or 100% load density. Enough neck length for proper neck tension. Sufficient velocity to make it effective at 1000yd/m. Of course, be accurate, low in recoil, give relatively long barrel life, feed from mag in case of rapid fire requirements, use ballistically superior bullets, easy to get dies and components.

    I studied the 6.5-284, an excellent cartridge in its own right, and found that max velocity was not often the most accurate, throat wear was considered high, recoil moderate but still a little on the high side, case rarely if ever full (this is a personal opinion. I like full cases of powder), components were a bit pricey. BUT it shoots very well. Most seem to launch 140/142gr match bullets around 3000fps.

    What to do? For me, the answer was to make a slightly smaller case and basing that case on readily available brass. That lead to the use of the 308 Win case.

    This is an improved wildcat where the shoulder is moved as far forward as possible and still leave a calibre long neck. Shoulder angle is 35 degs. Throat is extended to allow 140/142gr match bullets to seat well out to reduce case intrusion. If you look at the picture, you will see the comparision with the parent 308 case.

    This case will not fit in a short action mag. A medium length action ie 7X57 mauser length is ideal. Of course, a standard length '06 action would also work just fine. Push feed actions are prefered as the sharp shoulder will not work in some controlled feed actions.

    Of course, this is moot in BR single shot actions.

    Prep of this brass is very easy. First 308 win brass is sized at 30 cal and neck turned to 12 thou. The brass is then run through a 7mm neck sizing die to form the secondary shoulder. Location is such that when chambered, the bolt requires firm pressure to close. Cases are then fireformed using the cream of wheat method and out pops a case with a shoulder 90% formed. The first high pressure load finishes the job. I have yet to loose a case using this forming method.

    I did my testing in a 25" aftermarket barrel, a bit short but was cheap. Velocites reached 2800fps but accurate vel for that barrel was around 2750fps. In a 28 to 30" match barrel, reaching 2850 to 2900fps should be no issue.

    The slight difference in velocity isn't going to amount to that much more wind drift in the real world. Something I was willing to live with.

    The rifle proved very easy to load for and accurate. A full, ever so slightly compressed load of H4831SC, gave the best results when lit with either Fed 210M or CCI BR2 primers. I used Fed Gold Medal brass which has a smaller capacity then Winchester. I was able to use 48gr of my lot of H4831SC and would expect up to 49gr using Win brass in this rifle.

    The bullets are seated way out. In the picture, the bullet used is the then new 140gr SST which measures a very long 1.40". The boattail sits right at the shoulder/case juction leaving the whole case neck to hold on to the bullet. Perfect. The chamber throated so that the bullet was just off the lands. That could be adjusted to suit your style of land engagement.

    At 200m, groups were 5rds in 1/2" or less. I am no BR shooter and this was no BR rifle, but was still very happy with the results. A match rifle/shooter would probably do much better. I did shoot several groups which were one hole. I believe the shooter was the weak link here. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

    So the design has met all my criteria for function and performance. Using approx 3/4 the powder of the 6.5-284 will help extend throat life and of course, reduce recoil. Case life is great and trimming not really needed when using the collet die.

    Some testing the 6.5 WSSM improved case are using the same amount of powder to get the same velocity. For me, I trust that I can always get 308Win brass. Not so sure about the WSSM.

    The best part is that custom dies do not need to be used for this wildcat. I use Lee Collet neck die in 260Rem with a shim (metal washer actually). Works perfectly. I seat bullets using the 260 bullet seater with no problems. One can easily adapt all available 260 bushing and sizing dies to work. This saves you a bunch of money. Can't be said for the WSSM wildcats.

    I have really enjoyed this project from concept through to creation. The fact that it has met my expectations is a wonderful bonus. I am about to build a 16.5lbs BR type rifle in this cartridge to fully explore its potential.

    If this is something you want to try, let me know and I will send you details on how to cut the chamber and a case to use as a headspace guage. Many gunsmiths already have the proper reamers on hand. Again a huge savings not needing another custom reamer.

    Enjoy...

    Jerry

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