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300 gr SMKs consistancy dropping out of Supersonic velocity...
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<blockquote data-quote="Fiftydriver" data-source="post: 214223" data-attributes="member: 10"><p>Shawn,</p><p> </p><p>We talked about this a couple years back when I was working with the 338 Kahns. My initial load was in the 2900 fps range and my results were exactly what you were seeing with your Edge, within 100 yards or so as far as max range was concerned. </p><p> </p><p>We also discussed this concerning the 308 and how its consistancy really dropped once it dropped below super sonic velocity. </p><p> </p><p>I would agree with you also that at times, it can appear that you can make reliable hits at ranges past your super sonic limits. I recall the first shot I took with my 338 Kahn at around 2200 yards and it dead centered the target rock I was aiming at. I was very excited about that performance until I took the second shot and I was not within several feet of the target rock. It only went down hill from there with some of the impacts not even visible to me or my two spotters.</p><p> </p><p>I know with the 338 AM it has been the same way, occasionally with the 300 gr SMK, you can reach past its super sonic limits but they are few and far between as far as consistancy goes and it seems like there is a wall that is around 40-50 yards thick that if you shoot at ranges closer then that wall, great results, past that wall, its totally random.</p><p> </p><p>I did get a reply from Gordy and to his credit he did not personally attach me because I questioned him on the article. Below is his reply to my questioning:</p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: red">Hi, Kirby</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: red"><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px">I don't mind at all your questioning this. We don't have extensive experience with this, but we have gone out to SoDak doing this about 15 times or so, all in the same place. </span></span><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The 1/2 moa is not a common occurrence, but we've had a number of days where we could hit the mound we're shooting at very regularly. That day we could do no wrong, but some other days we can't keep it even close. But the one time I talked about where we hit the mound 16 times out of 22 shots was an exceptionally good day condition-wise - definitely the best day we ever had for this. I'm going to guess we've had it over half a dozen times when we've been able to keep them close to 1 moa for the majority of the shots, though, and were really surprised by this at first, but we've done it often enough now that we aren't so surprised by it any more.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: red">I know I really questioned it also when I read about Bruce Artus and Kregg Slack doing this at 3125 yards, and still did after talking on the phone to Artus. They sent me a video that they took and that is what gave me the idea to video our efforts. We just used a fairly high quality video camcorder that had enough magnification to zoom in to where we could easily see the gong from the firing line and the puffs of dust at the gong when the bullet got there - definitely not high-def, but sure shows it good enough to easily see what's happening.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: red">We also wondered about the bullets staying stable since we figured they were going sub-sonic around 2200 yards or so, and we have talked about setting one of our 1000 yard targets up at 3600 yards to see if they go through the paper point-on or sideways, but have not done that yet. We often see guys trying to shoot 168 Sierras out of 308 Win's at our 1000 yard matches, and they will almost always be tumbling by the time they get there, but will still often be grouping quite well - often under 10 inches (kinda hard to measure center to center with keyholed bullet holes though!! <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: red">So I don't know what to tell you, other than what we've seen and done for ourselves enough times now to have a pretty good feel for what's happening for us - but it sure is intriguing though, isn't it</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: red">Thanks!</span></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="color: red">Gordy</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"><span style="color: black">He does not attack me but also does not offer any meaningful explination how he is getting these results and others can not. I have seen some of the rough video from Artus and Slack and from the video I saw, it was far less then convincing. In fact, the results they were getting appeared to be no more consistant then what we are seeing. That said, they happened to get a couple shots on steel and somehow got lucky enough to have a bullet land on a P-Dog at 3125 yards. The skill level on that shot I would rate at around 1% and 99% luck.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I also find it interesting that they are getting moa groups with the 308 win at 1000 yard matches when the bullet has been proven to be tumbling??????</span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Magic is happening down there I tell ya. Hell, the 7mm AM would be a 4000 yard rifle in that mystical part of S. Dakota!!!! lets go whitetail hunting!!!!</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Fiftydriver, post: 214223, member: 10"] Shawn, We talked about this a couple years back when I was working with the 338 Kahns. My initial load was in the 2900 fps range and my results were exactly what you were seeing with your Edge, within 100 yards or so as far as max range was concerned. We also discussed this concerning the 308 and how its consistancy really dropped once it dropped below super sonic velocity. I would agree with you also that at times, it can appear that you can make reliable hits at ranges past your super sonic limits. I recall the first shot I took with my 338 Kahn at around 2200 yards and it dead centered the target rock I was aiming at. I was very excited about that performance until I took the second shot and I was not within several feet of the target rock. It only went down hill from there with some of the impacts not even visible to me or my two spotters. I know with the 338 AM it has been the same way, occasionally with the 300 gr SMK, you can reach past its super sonic limits but they are few and far between as far as consistancy goes and it seems like there is a wall that is around 40-50 yards thick that if you shoot at ranges closer then that wall, great results, past that wall, its totally random. I did get a reply from Gordy and to his credit he did not personally attach me because I questioned him on the article. Below is his reply to my questioning: [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=red]Hi, Kirby[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=red][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]I don't mind at all your questioning this. We don't have extensive experience with this, but we have gone out to SoDak doing this about 15 times or so, all in the same place. [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=2]The 1/2 moa is not a common occurrence, but we've had a number of days where we could hit the mound we're shooting at very regularly. That day we could do no wrong, but some other days we can't keep it even close. But the one time I talked about where we hit the mound 16 times out of 22 shots was an exceptionally good day condition-wise - definitely the best day we ever had for this. I'm going to guess we've had it over half a dozen times when we've been able to keep them close to 1 moa for the majority of the shots, though, and were really surprised by this at first, but we've done it often enough now that we aren't so surprised by it any more.[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=red]I know I really questioned it also when I read about Bruce Artus and Kregg Slack doing this at 3125 yards, and still did after talking on the phone to Artus. They sent me a video that they took and that is what gave me the idea to video our efforts. We just used a fairly high quality video camcorder that had enough magnification to zoom in to where we could easily see the gong from the firing line and the puffs of dust at the gong when the bullet got there - definitely not high-def, but sure shows it good enough to easily see what's happening.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=red]We also wondered about the bullets staying stable since we figured they were going sub-sonic around 2200 yards or so, and we have talked about setting one of our 1000 yard targets up at 3600 yards to see if they go through the paper point-on or sideways, but have not done that yet. We often see guys trying to shoot 168 Sierras out of 308 Win's at our 1000 yard matches, and they will almost always be tumbling by the time they get there, but will still often be grouping quite well - often under 10 inches (kinda hard to measure center to center with keyholed bullet holes though!! :) [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=red]So I don't know what to tell you, other than what we've seen and done for ourselves enough times now to have a pretty good feel for what's happening for us - but it sure is intriguing though, isn't it[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=red]Thanks! Gordy[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][/FONT] [FONT=Arial][COLOR=black]He does not attack me but also does not offer any meaningful explination how he is getting these results and others can not. I have seen some of the rough video from Artus and Slack and from the video I saw, it was far less then convincing. In fact, the results they were getting appeared to be no more consistant then what we are seeing. That said, they happened to get a couple shots on steel and somehow got lucky enough to have a bullet land on a P-Dog at 3125 yards. The skill level on that shot I would rate at around 1% and 99% luck.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Arial]I also find it interesting that they are getting moa groups with the 308 win at 1000 yard matches when the bullet has been proven to be tumbling??????[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]Magic is happening down there I tell ya. Hell, the 7mm AM would be a 4000 yard rifle in that mystical part of S. Dakota!!!! lets go whitetail hunting!!!![/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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300 gr SMKs consistancy dropping out of Supersonic velocity...
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