.30 cal bullet bc .942!!!!!!

Discussion in 'Reloading' started by cdn shooter, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. cdn shooter

    cdn shooter Active Member

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    I read the article whats wrong with the .30 caliber and it got me wondering with the popularity of the .30 all over the world someone must make a high bc bullet for it. I was right, check out GS Custom bullets their in south africa and they make extremly high bc bullets for all kinds of stuff .30 197gr .942, how about a .30 163 bc .712 their not cheap but Im pretty excited to order some and try them out
     
  2. britz

    britz Well-Known Member

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    It would be interesting to see some real world results from using these. However, one problem i swith stablezing them. Like Mystic player pointed out in the "what's wrong with the 30" that once we get the the 7" twist things get pretty hairy. I wonder what twist is required to launch those BC's?
     

  3. cdn shooter

    cdn shooter Active Member

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    Gs customs website show graphs to match bullets with optimum twist rates. It looks like the 197gr would need 1 in 8 which puts that one out for me but the 163gr. needs 1 in 10 which is what my rifle is. I dont know if you saw their hunting bullet line they have 177gr .632 bc barnes type expanding bullet. Does anybody know if anybody is making this sort of thing in north america? Or are we just simply behind.
     
  4. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    I read that some people shooting GS bullets had waaay more drop than the BC would lead you to believe. Don't know if they have sorted out the BC issues, but it could be a fair bit lower than .942
     
  5. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    According to Gerrard of GS Custom, in a thread here on long range, they have the bc thing sorted out. I have just ordered some of the 177g .308's. I will post on them after I do load development and can shoot them at long range. Sometime this spring.

    Perhaps Gerrard will chime in again.

    Steve
     
  6. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    There's an old saying that starts off, "if it sounds too good to be true . . ." This could well be the case here. I haven't seen these, but bullets this light, with this high of a BC would leave me wondering if they're using a G1 drag model. This is standard for US makers, it's a model (a series of models, actually) that was developed here in the US and may or may not be what they're using. This would be my guess. Need to find this out for sure, otherwise you could be comparing apples to volkswagens.

    Kevin Thomas
    Berger Bullets
     
  7. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    According to GS they use a G1 model.

    Steve
     
  8. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    Their BC's are so far past any comparable bullet weight made in the US that I have SERIOUS doubts about their numbers, or at least how they are calculated!

    Berger builds great bullets, and I have never heard anyone call BS on their numbers.

    JLK bullets from Swampworks also have a great reputation, and people seem to believe their numbers as well.

    Neither has anything close to the BC's claimed by GS.

    I hope to get some of the GS bullets and compare, but I also have heard rumors that people are not getting the expected results based upon the published BC's.
     
  9. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Steve,
    If they are in fact G1 figures, and their bullets actually do turn in results like that, I'll be duly impressed. But I'd need to see the testing and would want to verify their set up before I'd accept the results. What can I say? I'm sitting here in Missouri, so like the state motto says, they're going to have to Show Me.

    Kevin Thomas
    Berger Bullets
     
  10. jwp475

    jwp475 Well-Known Member

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    I'd be rather surprised if the BC was much over .600 and would not be too surprised if the BC was in the high .5's
     
  11. Tyler Kemp

    Tyler Kemp SPONSOR

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    You gotta remember they are turned copper bullets that require a 1-8" twist...they better be over .6! While I don't know if they are .942, they are very pointy and sleek, I don't think it's fair to say "well Berger doesn't have anything that high" when the Bergers are a jacketed lead bullet. The website says it will be 20% longer than a comparable bullet weight, if I added 20% of length to a 208 Amax it would certainly boost the BC a fair bit, and it's already .648.

    Again, I have no clue as to the actual BC of the bullet, but my guess is it is at least .7+
     
  12. RockyMtnMT

    RockyMtnMT Official LRH Sponsor

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    Kevin,

    Does one bullet manufacturer usually share with another about the nuts and bolts? If so give them a call and ask them. Or do what, I assume you do w/ all the other bullets out there, get some and pick them apart. Figure out what they are doing, and weather or not it works. They have three diff lines of bullets, two hunting and one target. I ordered some of their new hunting bullets to test them out for my self, surely Berger bullets can do the same. Maybe it is just easier to come on a public forum and lead people to believe it is not true weather you know it to be or not.

    I went to their web site and pulled these #'s: 197g, .308cal match target bullet, 1.85" long, .99" nose length. BC's: .942 @ 3300fps, .838 @ 2250fps, .617 @ 1200fps. Min required twist 1:8.5.

    It seems that people here are saying that it is not possible (I don't know) with a bullet that is this light. Yet most of you accept that the Wild Cat bullets that are much lighter than Match Kings are able to have much higher BC"s. If I am not mistaken this is possible because they are made of a different material and shape.

    Our rifles have advanced their abilities in leaps and bounds. Yet our bullets have remained relatively unchanged for the last 50yrs. It only makes sense that bullets are going to catch up to the abilities of the bigger faster calibers that are here and common now.

    One last question. When Wild Cat bullets showed up, did any of you say 'that's not possible, I'll believe it when they show me how they tested them, and prove it to me'? Or did you all get in line to get some? I don't get it.

    Steve
     
  13. Kevin Thomas

    Kevin Thomas Well-Known Member

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    Morning, Steve,

    most manufacturers tend to be a bit cagey about what they consider proprietary information. And yes, most purchase and evaluate those of the competition. I'm sure the straight dope will come out once more people have had some experience with them.

    A bullet has to have some mass to achieve a high BC; it can't be done via shape alone. While these bullets may indeed have a very streamlined shape, When using a less dense material, say solid copper as opposed to the more conventional lead-cored, gilding metal jacketed design, the result has to be a longer bullet to get to the same SD, and at some point that length is going to become a problem (twist rates & stability) in and of itself. The other way to go here is to use a much denser material to achieve the high SD, and resulting increase in BC. PRL did this some years back when they came out with a polymer-cored 87 grain .224" match bullet that looked almost exactly the same as a 69 grain HPBT match bullet. Very high SD, significant improvement in BC. They were also extremely expensive and seemed to have accuracy and consistency (lot to lot) problems. I haven't seen anyone using these in years now, but you get the drift.

    The problem here is that we run into a very stubborn set of physics. They don't change, they don't bend, and whatever advances can be made tend to be incremental. Working on all of these, but a healthy dose of skepticism is always warranted.

    I'd have to disagree with you a bit about the progress in this field, too. In my opinion, the only truly significant (world changing) developments in the past 150 years in this field were, 1) the development of smokeless propellant; allowed the development of several entirely new action/operation systems, 2) the development of the gilding metal jacketed bullet; allowed significantly improved pressures and velocities, and 3) the epiphany of just how much more aerodynamic a pointed bullet was over the standrad of the time, a heavy-weight round nose. This last revolutionized military tactics worldwide, every bit as much as the development of nuclear weapons did 50 years later. Everything else has been relatively small improvments made possible by better and more precise manufacturing, better materials, etc.. Long, slow process of evolution at work here.

    Kevin Thomas
    Berger Bullets
     
  14. bwaites

    bwaites Well-Known Member

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    Kevin,

    Just a thought here. I was playing with some folded paper figures and found that a tube with a thicker leading edge tends to sail.

    If you made a bullet with an inner edge that tapered back to a thinner edge at the rear. (A hollow bullet, so to speak) would it also have a lifting effect? And would the spin have any effect?

    I recognize you might lose the pointy front end.