270WSM vs 280AI vs 7mmRM

Discussion in 'Long Range Hunting & Shooting' started by blownsmok97, Mar 4, 2011.

  1. blownsmok97

    blownsmok97 Member

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    First off I have been lurking around these forums and reading the articles for a while now but first time posting.

    I currently have a mod 70 in 270wsm with a 24'' barrel and factory trigger set at 3 lbs. I have been working up a load for it, but am now considering a move back to the 7mm world due to bullet selection and such. I know wildcat has the 169.5's but i have contacted him and he made it sound unknown when more would be available. I want bullets that are more available than that to get.

    What i have really been thinking about doing is getting a savage in 270 or 30-06, pulling the barrel and getting a Shilen 26" drop in for it chambered in 280AI. Sounds to me like a pretty sweet caliber and i have really been considering this seriously. Maybe it's just cuz of the cool-kid factor.

    But then I also think, maybe I should just get a savage in 7 Mag cuz it would be cheaper. But I really love the idea of the 280AI.

    So what does everyone think? Keep the 270wsm, or switch to 280AI or 7mag?

    This will be for deer and possibly elk out to 6-800 yards once I become confident enough with the rifle. And I do handload.

    Thanks in advance for the help :D
     
  2. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    The 277 cal is a wonderful bullet with decent ballistic Coeficient on the 150 SPBTS. Chronos DON'T lie and most reloading books give some generous speeds. Your off the shelf 7 mag is not all it's cracked up to be with a 24 inch. Your 270 WSM could really take advantage of something like a 28 inch Pac-Nor or one of the other barrels.

    The wildcat 169.5 were not the answer. I did not get enough and no BC data on the bullets. I only got 100 of them about 5 years ago before "wildcat bullets" shut down so testing was minimal. I did my best guesses on the powder and then actually bumped it up a bit. I also don't believe that my 1-10 rifling is correct for such a long bullet. I zeroed it in on 200 yards at the range and shot a .622 three shot and called it good. I really wanted to see what one of the 169.5's (.277) would do on a deer at 600 yards. But as luck would have it was another sub 100 yard kicked the buck out of his bed base of the neck shot. It was a pass through shot with the deer missing about two neck vertebra.

    the .277 could have become a great round if it got the following of the 6 or 6.5 mm.


    169.5 gr wildcats compared to my home moly coated 150 Speer SPBT

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011

  3. gr8whyt

    gr8whyt Well-Known Member

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    I shot the 7mm RM for a long time when I could only afford one rifle. And it did remarkably well for anything I was hunting including deer, elk, antelope and black bear. But whenever I looked at what people were doing with the .280 AI, it made that bigger magnum case seem kinda wasteful. If it were me, I'd go with the .280 AI and not look back.

    -- gr8whyt
     
  4. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you are pointing the SPBT. Have you any idea's what your BC has improved to with it pointed?

    Tank
     
  5. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    I Changed my above post to Chronos are correct and reloading books are generous on FPS.

    The pointing is a natural Phenominon of throwing SP bullets in a tumbler full of your favorite moly coating compound. The bullets bang together and they all come out nicely pointed.

    There are some smart guys on this forum. I don't have the program anymore. But you can plug in the chrono speed. I use the chrono 21 feet away from the barrel end to eliminate muzzle flash speed variations. Setup twin targets directly in line on a windless morning. set one at your 200 "ZERO" and the other out at 400 yards. Measure the exact bullet drop or even a shorter range like 100 and 200 yards for a slower low BC bullet.

    You can figure out true BC. by plugging in the bullet weight, dia, ....... speed, and true bullet drop over a known distance


    I've always wondered about recovered bullets that have these deep rifling grooves. That must make turbulent air flow?
     
  6. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    Have you noticed if the point are always centered or are some of them getting honed off center. I would think it would be minimal, but still would be concerned w/ it not being concentric and an issue with the natural pointing. Do they seem to shoot any straighter than a non-tumbled bullet? Do you lose any weight from the tumbling process with the media removing any of the lead from the tip? Just curious about this phenomenon.

    Tank
     
  7. budlight

    budlight Well-Known Member

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    Tank, I don't have all the scientific data to quote true facts about moly coating. For many years I only put one bullet in a gun at a time. Because i noticed that high recoil guns flaten the pointed bullets tips

    I use moly because:

    I have guns that are Over bore and barrel life is not all that long.

    From chrono testing moly bullets loose speed and it might take an additional 1.5 grains to make equal speed. So that would tell me that friction went down.

    I might shoot hundred of bullets in one day. heat ruins a rifle throat. Sometimes I take at least 3 rifles so when #1 gets warm to the touch, I go to number 2.......... You can keep up a paced rate of fire by letting guns cool off and my guns seem to shoot more rounds of moly before needing a cool down period

    I will weigh some before and after moly to give you a weight data. The points are very much perfectly centered. Grouping size comparision. I work for a living, Very active, and have very little time to devote to pure paper punching. I might spend hundreds of rounds getting a new rifle setup and figured out with good balistic drop and windage tables and then I'm off in the hills or an airplane after varmints and big game. I also like iron shooting.


    Lets just say I'm not locked into one hobby like paper punching or golf. I'd rather be out at some road racing track blowing by all the slow cars or gardening
     
  8. blownsmok97

    blownsmok97 Member

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    Sounds like 1 vote 270wsm, 1 vote 280ai.
    anybody else have an opinion?
     
  9. liltank

    liltank Well-Known Member

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    My vote goes to the 270WSM. It is an outstanding performer. It will definitely get you to 1000yds for deer with 150VLD's. That is the highest ballistic coefficient bullet available in .277 cal. The 280AI will give you higher BC, but they perform equally well to that distance. The limiting factor to the 280 is powder capacity. Still no slouch mind you.

    Tank
     
  10. yobuck

    yobuck Well-Known Member

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    the cartridge you have as well as the others are all good ones.
    if i owned your gun, i doubt id be changing to one of the others. to my mind it would be a half step in 2 directions.
    if you want a long range 7mm, get an stw or an ultra mag.
    for long range elk id personaly be looking at 30 cal or 338.
    they all cost about the same to buy or build. why not get the most bang for your buck.
    you have a good cartridge, keep it and be thinking about another bigger club.
     
  11. bigngreen

    bigngreen Well-Known Member

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    That would sum it up for me as well. The 280AI just won't quite roll with the 270 WSM and the 7 mag is just not that much of a jump over the 270 WSM. But if your current 270 WSM isn't performing then don't waste time on it.
     
  12. blownsmok97

    blownsmok97 Member

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    I see what you guys are saying and maybe I should go bigger. Get it done the first time. So what's your opinions on 300 win vs 7stw vs 300 rum vs 7rum?
     
  13. blownsmok97

    blownsmok97 Member

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    Now I am really leaning towards a 7stw. What do you guys think?
    Savage 110 with a 26" Shilen barrel?
    I wouldn't have to change the bolt face or anything to rechamber a 7mmRM savage to a 7mmSTW right?
     
  14. Long Time Long Ranger

    Long Time Long Ranger Well-Known Member

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    The rifle you have is a very good rifle for your purpose and the other two are not going to do it any better. So if your 270 WSM is shooting well I wouldn't spend the money to change it. If I was picking one off the shelf I would take the 280 AI of those three. If you want another gun the 7mm STW is one of the best out there that can be shot well without a brake. The 264 STW will beat it slightly ballistically speaking. Those are two of my favorite long range rifles without a brake. If you don't mind a brake then many other choices. Ultramags are good and many others.